Could this happen in California? (school, college, quality of life)

[Mugsy]

My feeling is that CA might lean to shave off some benefits and freeze or reduce new hires pay.

[.highnlite]

Says the closed shop and anti-right to work crowd.

I worked in a right to work state, what that means is, you strike, you are fired.

[AndyV]

The minute the average public sector worker earns more than the average private sector worker, who pays their wages, there is a problem. Public sector workers, for the most part, are in a no risk job, rarely fired, layed off or even miss a COLA whereas in the private sector, for the most part, none of these hold true. The bottom line is the public sector should be there at the convenience of, and to serve, the private sector . but it has become a system, primarily because of collective bargaining okayed by Jerry Brown, of underworked entitlees. I did business, in the private sector, with the State of CA and observed this exact behavior first hand for almost 7 years ~ it just never ceased to amaze me and was consistent across departments and agencies. The sad part of this is they just don't see it . and the reality of financial hard times just does not resonate with them, they are too insulated.

[ringwise]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

My point was, I simply stated a rumor to anyone who cared to answer it and at no time did I claim that what I posted was a fact. it was just rumor. If the first response or responses I get have the tone of "liberal this" or "liberal that", that's tells me that those who are conservative have little to contribute and back their side up. All they can do is complain about liberals, even when faced with a simple statement.

Typical liberal. You never said it was a rumor, and in fact stated it as fact.

Hard to even care to correct someone that spews rumors as facts. Nothing to do but to call them out.

No getting out of this one. It's not a simple statement. It's an outright lie spoken as if it's the truth.

[ringwise]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

... and neither can an elite of investment bankers and accountants and attorneys and politicians.

Unions came into existence as a check and balance to industrial and financial opportunists. Now the unions have, themselves, become a bit of the same monster -- by their collective leverage. Time for readjustment? Sure. But the prime evil still lies with the psycho-sociopathic personalities at the top of the food chain: the money-changers (on Wall St.)

The top of the heap is actually the bureaucratic in WA. They were charged with overseeing those firms and turned a blind eye.

[.highnlite]

I notice that the righties have dropped the Wisconsin discussion, once it was pointed out to them that it was manufactured by the Republicans, and is not an actual problem.

Typical liberal. You never said it was a rumor, and in fact stated it as fact.

If gawd did not want liberals, why did he give us brains?

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by ringwise

The top of the heap is actually the bureaucratic in WA. They were charged with overseeing those firms and turned a blind eye.

The bureaucratic / politicos in Wash. are absolutely complicit ... but I disagree they are the "top of the heap" ... they serve themselves by serving the financial elite ... along with a cadre of lawyers and accountants, who are also complicit. But, in the historic words of Watergate's Deep Throat: "Follow the money." The availability of money is always the truest source for manipulations.

On the off-chance you are actually interested, examples of the crimes and dis-services to the American public by both the financial and political tiers may be found in the linked articles below -- (linked from CD Forum discussion at the culprits (of California's mess) are not public employees

Why Isn't Wall Street in Jail? | Rolling Stone Politics

Andrew Cuomo and Fannie and Freddie - Page 1 - News - New York - Village Voice

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by ringwise

Typical liberal. You never said it was a rumor, and in fact stated it as fact.

Hard to even care to correct someone that spews rumors as facts. Nothing to do but to call them out.

No getting out of this one. It's not a simple statement. It's an outright lie spoken as if it's the truth.

Reading comprehension issues noted:

Originally Posted by Gentoo

From what I've also heard it makes sense until you factor in what Bill didn't tell you: Wisconsin has a $137 budget deficit, but in January, the Governor pushed through $140 million in new spending to special interests.

From what I heard in no way makes it sound like I think it's a fact to any sensible person and up till now, that seemed to hold true.

No if you are still confused:

Originally Posted by Gentoo

No, that's why I said I only heard it and why I haven't yet decided which side is right in this case. I'm wary about jumping on either side at the moment.

I explained myself already. Guess you missed this too right?

ok ok. I know I'm still not being clear so let me quote myself one more time:

Originally Posted by Gentoo

Again, it's all here say. I was simply throwing out something I had heard to see if anyone had heard this. According to yours and highnlites responses from opposite sides, it's like just a rumor.

You either have trouble understanding what's right in front of you or you thought you'd try to be clever without without reading the whole thread first.


Here's your ass sir

[nullgeo]

And yet more update on the true motivations behind the Wisc. upheaval ... in which it is clear that this isn't about balancing the budget. Unions out of control? ans: control them -- but do not destroy them ... they have played a critical role in the historical development of the quality of life in our society ... take them away, and we will find ourselves back in feudalistic servitude, quite literally. The health of a free society lies neither in fascism or communism -- but in the balancing act:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/21/op...21krugman.html

"[Walker] has made it clear that rather than bargaining with workers, he wants to end workers’ ability to bargain."

"What Mr. Walker and his backers are trying to do is to make Wisconsin — and eventually, America — less of a functioning democracy and more of a third-world-style oligarchy."

"In principle, every American citizen has an equal say in our political process. In practice, of course, some of us are more equal than others. Billionaires can field armies of lobbyists; they can finance think tanks that put the desired spin on policy issues; they can funnel cash to politicians with sympathetic views (as the Koch brothers did in the case of Mr. Walker). On paper, we’re a one-person-one-vote nation; in reality, we’re more than a bit of an oligarchy, in which a handful of wealthy people dominate.

"... it’s important to have institutions that can act as counterweights to the power of big money. ... You don’t have to love unions, ... to recognize that they’re among the few influential players ... representing the interests of middle- and working-class Americans, as opposed to the wealthy. Indeed, if America has become more oligarchic and less democratic over the last 30 years — which it has — that’s to an important extent due to the decline of private-sector unions.

"... There’s a bitter irony here. The fiscal crisis in Wisconsin, as in other states, was largely caused by the increasing power of America’s oligarchy. After all, it was superwealthy players, not the general public, who pushed for financial deregulation and thereby set the stage for the economic crisis of 2008-9, a crisis whose aftermath is the main reason for the current budget crunch. And now the political right is trying to exploit that very crisis, using it to remove one of the few remaining checks on oligarchic influence."

[user_id]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

Unions out of control? ans: control them -- but do not destroy them ... they have played a critical role in the historical development of the quality of life in our society ... take them away, and we will find ourselves back in feudalistic servitude, quite literally.

Yes, they played a role in the history of our nation, but our nation has changed. Your claim about feudalistic servitude is pure hyperbole, most of the private work force is not unionized and yet we haven't found ourselves back to "feudalistic servitude".

The originally reasons for unions no longer exist. We now have fairly strong labor laws and the nature of most jobs has shifted considerably.

Why exactly should government workers be unionized?

Lastly, I don't know why you are posting an opinion piece as if it provides any sort of justification for your point of view, it just repeats it.