Why shouldn't rich people in CA be taxed more? (home, school)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Maryland once implemented basically a "millionaire's tax". Most of the millionaires ended up changing residency to another state. Maryland then lifted the tax.
Factually incorrect since most billionaires are living of of capital gains. I believe Warren Buffet said his total net tax rate was around 16% which he thought was unfair since his secretary, who makes $40,000 per year, pays a much higher rate. Or as Buffet said "There is something wrong when a billionaire like me pays a lower tax rate than my secretary."
Warren Buffett is not the norm. Warren Buffett takes retained earnings. He earned $100,000 a year for most of the last 20 years. His current net worth is around $35 billion. His marginal tax rate was around 28%, meaning he paid something like $25,000 a year in taxes in theory.
Why can't we tax people like Larry Ellison or Mark Zuckerberg more? I find it impossible to believe that we have to make such draconian cuts to the budget, which are being implemented now by our current Governor and were started by our previous Governor, when there is so much personal wealth that is passed off and protected as "business growth."
Simple, it's their money that they earned through their labor. The state has no right to confiscate it and redistribute it as they see fit just because they have more money than they "need". If that's the kind of society you want to live in, there are plenty of Communist dictatorships that would suit you. Cuba, Venezuela, China, Russia, and Zimbabwe all come to mind.
Maryland once implemented basically a "millionaire's tax". Most of the millionaires ended up changing residency to another state. Maryland then lifted the tax.
Someone made this claim just today in the politics form and it was complete BS when you got into the numbers. The tax went into effect in 2008 so they compared 2007 (before the financial bubble popped) to 2008 (after the financial bubble popped. The hard truth was the reason people made less after the economy crashed was... Shockingly enough... because the economy crashed.
They didn't move but the bad economy did mean a whole lot of people who were flying high during the boom had their incomes fall dramatically post-bust. There was little to no "millionaire flight" to other states but there was a whole lot of folks who owned car dealerships, development companies, were high flying commissioned real estate brokers, etc... Who were making great money during the boom who saw big drops in income after the economy went to hell. It's basic economics really and has nothing to do with a few base points on the total tax rate.
Factually incorrect since most billionaires are living of of capital gains. I believe Warren Buffet said his total net tax rate was around 16% which he thought was unfair since his secretary, who makes $40,000 per year, pays a much higher rate. Or as Buffet said "There is something wrong when a billionaire like me pays a lower tax rate than my secretary."
So what? The topic has to do with the taxes in California.
California doesn't provide a favorable income tax rate for capital gains, they are taxed just like ordinary income.
What you hear time and time again is people having no understanding of a State's budget.. Revenue or Expenditures... No perspective as to how much of that is wasted and given back to 'rich' people via subsidized business loans/construction projects/other backdoor handouts, etc ...
No concept/understanding of the economics/logic behind various tax rates.... but they want to make assumptions as to how the rich get rich ... they want to tax someone besides themselves at a higher rate of taxation.... they want more of what someone else has ... and they are dumb enough to let the most corrupt idiots of all (government) serve as the middle man for these fund transfers.
-> Qualified dividends : Taxed at 15%
-> Long term capital gains : Taxed at 15%
If they were any different, there would be no reason to do long term investments and markets would be a volatile mess.
How did the wealthy get to the point to have enough capital to live off cap gains? By not spending it on every stupid product that passes in front of their eyes. By deferring purchases and not paying interest on ffw'ing their lives. By being humble. By creating businesses that employ thousands ....
By, after they make one successful business... starting another and another ... Being the pioneers of business and economic growth.. by taking risks in markets .. How often do you take $10,000 and instead of blowing it on ipads/junk go out and take a chance of loosing it all?
But, no one gets this.. No one cries for the millionaire who puts it all on the line and looses it.. No one cries for the billionaire who worked his whole life to get it only to see 1/2 of it get blown away due to risk.... Capital to create private businesses and thus jobs comes from somewhere... would you rather our idiotic government take this roll?
You have public schools. You have affordable colleges. You have welfare. You have food stamps. You have every entitlement program known to man. What else does society owe people? You have all the tools to make something of yourself and become wealthy.. I started from nothing... the way you do it ... try not buying a $2k bed... try buying a cheap car .. try not buying a house... try renting and having roommates... try everything to live on the bare minimum. Save your money and invest it and watch it compound ever so slowly ....
But how many Americans do this? How many Americans spend the time to understand the economy... Understand how business works... How investment works... How the world works and participate in the beautiful thing called capitalism? How many people unglue themselves from watching reality TV, American Idol, Glee, Fox, CNN and truly try to understand how the world works?
But, for those people who sacrifice .. who bust their buts to make sure you have a job.. who take the risk of starting a business (which the majority don't succeed) .. you want to punish them.. Or rather punish the ones that succeed... You don't even have a productive clue as to what you want to do w/ it .. but you just want to take from them. You want to take capital from them that they can otherwise use to create more jobs and you want to give it to idiots (government) .... Bravo ... Bravo to your plan.
There's a reason why some people are wealthy and others are not...
Some people consume junk w/ every penny they have.... others save and invest it.
Some people do their 9-5, plop in front of the consumer programming device (TV) while others try to find ways to make more ... create something....
There's nothing wrong w/ the path you choose.. but stop blaming other people for the consequences you face from your own personal action. Stop expecting someone else to give you a life you don't work for.
You already are given a lot in this country... opportunities others could only dream of. If you don't make something of it, you only have yourself to blame.
So, just because you think the rich can't leave you're gonna tax em? CAlifornia already does w/ its high income tax .... and what does it do w/ it ? It pisses it away. And what happens when the market crashes and all these millionaire's income turns negative ? The Price of Taxing the Rich - WSJ.com
You're living it right now.. There's a reason states don't have such lopsided tax policies. California obviously hasn't figured this out.
So, rich people are already getting taxed a lot in CA compared to others? How do you like the results? How is that working out for you after markets have collapsed and erased trillions of dollars of wealth? Tax revenue is surely down as a result... I guess the solution is rely even more on the wealthy so the next time the market goes kaboom it is even 2x more devastating to state tax revenue... Bravo !
You want to know how little real impact tax cuts have on the economy in the medium or short term? Ohio's Republican governor recently cut it's state income tax rates by 25% to "attract businesses and increase employment" and several economists looked at the effects of the tax cuts concluded it would improve over all employment by about 2% over... Get this... A 20 YEAR PERIOD. The problem is the cost of the tax cuts hit immediately but the payout (in the form of a slight increase in employment) dribbles in over a 20 year period so unless you're willing to make large cuts to basic services it often isn't a good trade off.
The top 1% pay about 20% of all taxes. The top 5% pay 40% of all taxes. The top 8% pay 93% of all taxes. How much more should we tax the top wage earners? Seems to me they are taxed plenty. Better to stop complaining and become one of them, don't you think?
I thought we were talking about income tax. Some of your statements suggest just taking money from mr. billionaire on a anual basis regardless if it was based on income. Do you really think that is fair?
Uh, why don't you let me decide what I suggested when I made my statements rather than telling me what my statements suggest as if they do so independently of the person who made them? Wouldn't that be fair?
I suggested that one year's $1B income was only a small portion of mr. billionaire's worth and even if the state taxes away a small percentage of it, mr. billionaire still has so much more to constitute his net worth.
I didn't suggest taxing him for his net worth alone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shope
Maryland once implemented basically a "millionaire's tax". Most of the millionaires ended up changing residency to another state. Maryland then lifted the tax.
I'm glad you told us the whole story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oerdin
Someone made this claim just today in the politics form and it was complete BS when you got into the numbers. The tax went into effect in 2008 so they compared 2007 (before the financial bubble popped) to 2008 (after the financial bubble popped. The hard truth was the reason people made less after the economy crashed was... Shockingly enough... because the economy crashed.
They didn't move but the bad economy did mean a whole lot of people who were flying high during the boom had their incomes fall dramatically post-bust. There was little to no "millionaire flight" to other states but there was a whole lot of folks who owned car dealerships, development companies, were high flying commissioned real estate brokers, etc... Who were making great money during the boom who saw big drops in income after the economy went to hell. It's basic economics really and has nothing to do with a few base points on the total tax rate.
I liked the misrepresentation better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOON2BNSURPRISE
The top 1% pay about 20% of all taxes. The top 5% pay 40% of all taxes. The top 8% pay 93% of all taxes. How much more should we tax the top wage earners? Seems to me they are taxed plenty. Better to stop complaining and become one of them, don't you think?
I'm so glad you posted that link as the page's author is so objective and lacking any motivation to represent the issue to his own advantage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BirchBarlow
Simple, it's their money that they earned through their labor. The state has no right to confiscate it and redistribute it as they see fit just because they have more money than they "need". If that's the kind of society you want to live in, there are plenty of Communist dictatorships that would suit you. Cuba, Venezuela, China, Russia, and Zimbabwe all come to mind.
Actually, it's their money because they earned it through everyone else's labor- i.e. their employees- and I actually do respect that. However, for you to tell us "it's their money that they earned through their labor" is absurd.
P.S. The Cold War is over and Russia is no longer a communist country.
Billionaires are financially a very unique group and are barely analogizable to any other.
I think this last quote pretty much says it all. Those who have the money make the ruies. If you are a billionaire, you have lots of ways to avoid paying the tax that are not available to mere millionaires or even hundred thousand-aires.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $53,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
