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Old 04-25-2011, 04:03 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,572 posts, read 27,278,954 times
Reputation: 9002

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Quote:
Originally Posted by VLWH View Post
Interesting idea, sort of like survivor. It's certainly worth a try.
Yeah I've always wondered. However as Curmudgeon said, there is the accountability problem. On the other hand, I bet a lot of constituents already feel like the representatives have lost touch with them.

 
Old 04-25-2011, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Los Altos Hills, CA
36,633 posts, read 67,216,638 times
Reputation: 21169
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
Where does that 3% number you quote come from?

For 2009, per capita state+local taxes in California was $4,910.
The Tax Foundation - California's State and Local Tax Burden, 1977-2009

Per capita state+local taxes in Texas was $3,197.
The Tax Foundation - Texas' State and Local Tax Burden, 1977-2009

California' per capita state/local tax burden is $1,713 or 53% higher than Texas.
And yet TX sure could use that extra $1,700 per head right about now couldnt it? I mean, its not like TXs state government is doing great without that money. We all know that now. All of the predictions regarding the aftermath of the slash-and-burn cuts TX has been forced to make have been quite dire.

TXs problem seems to be far undertaxation and California's problem is gross overspending.

Somewhere in the middle we will find the answer.
 
Old 04-25-2011, 04:20 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,593 posts, read 37,340,931 times
Reputation: 29336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
Yeah I've always wondered. However as Curmudgeon said, there is the accountability problem. On the other hand, I bet a lot of constituents already feel like the representatives have lost touch with them.
If they do, they're right!

I remember when I was still in CA and Darryl Steinberg had "won" the President pro Tem position in the Senate, I took him to task when he tilted far, far left. I'd known and worked with him and his staff for years.

Darryl asked me to give him a chance. I did. In the end, "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely." ~ Lord Acton (1834-1902)
 
Old 04-25-2011, 05:02 PM
 
2,311 posts, read 3,492,363 times
Reputation: 1223
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
What I find most disturbing is that most people actually think these rates are high. They are actually low compared to what people in other developed nations pay. In fact, on this topic, the S&P says that Americans are actually UNDERTAXED:



And Texas' state budget is reeling due to the undertaxation of its residents and businesses. We want to be a first world nation but we dont want to pay for it seems to be our latest motto.

You're drawing blank... regarding our tax rates.. they are not low compared to what developed nations pay... If you cite europe, I am going to quickly point to the economic output of Europe ... Point to the fiscal issues in europe.. the debt issues in europe... and the lack of lax immigration in europe vs. the U.S... and further highlight the big consequences of high taxation...

Let me point out a wonderful example from across the waters.. a place now on the verge of collapse and has daily protests given that 40% of GDP comes from the broke government...

Economy of Greece - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The public sector accounts for about 40% of GDP. The service sector contributes 78.5% of total GDP, industry 17.6% and agriculture 4%

Yeah, that's a wonderful economy right there
I think its hilarious the aggregate #'s, averages, and comparisons that are thrown around on here which I don't feel people understand in the least.
As for Texas, they are not reeling due to under taxation. On budget deficits.. given all the taxes we have here, what's your excuse for California ? Yeah... were' not taxed enough here.. gotcha..

Go google the latest news on : Greece/portugal/spain.
 
Old 04-25-2011, 05:09 PM
 
2,311 posts, read 3,492,363 times
Reputation: 1223
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
I dont mind paying a little more in taxes but I am incredibly weary of how our elected officials will spend it.

I dont want anymore money spent on increased bureaucracy or on hiring new state employees.\
You say you don't want more taxes BUT ... that's a big but ... The truth is Elected officials have demonstrated they will misuse the revenue, more money will be spent on bureaucracy, hiring new state employees, and paying them more than what they deserve...

Yet, you don't mind paying a little more in taxes...
I really would love to know why .. what's your reasoning?
 
Old 04-25-2011, 05:12 PM
 
2,311 posts, read 3,492,363 times
Reputation: 1223
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
Where does that 3% number you quote come from?

For 2009, per capita state+local taxes in California was $4,910.
The Tax Foundation - California's State and Local Tax Burden, 1977-2009

Per capita state+local taxes in Texas was $3,197.
The Tax Foundation - Texas' State and Local Tax Burden, 1977-2009

California' per capita state/local tax burden is $1,713 or 53% higher than Texas.

Per capita.. aggregates and averages .. It's not third order differential equations.. Tax season just passed. Take 5 min. to calculate what your taxation would be if you lived in Texas vs. California ..

For income alone, I already see a near $18,000 difference.
So much for your wonderful aggregates/averages...

Packed in those averages are people who makes $30k a year and pay didly squat in taxes in CA.
As for this silly 3% per capita nonsense popping up again.. I thought I spent nearly 40 posts not to long ago showing how it was total b.s.
 
Old 04-25-2011, 05:15 PM
 
2,311 posts, read 3,492,363 times
Reputation: 1223
Quote:
Originally Posted by VLWH View Post
Great post hoffdano, 3% LOL.....
Too bad people don't fully understand what per capita is .. How averages work.. How aggregates work... Some silly figure is thrown out, given the stamp of (official data), and it conforms w/ your bias and your brain stops functioning...

Confirmation bias is a hellavuh thing.
I'm thinking there's a reason why your average American is broke .. Lack of understanding of economics, data, mathematics, and analysis is probably the main reasons...
Suffice to say, the people who don't pay taxes and want them increased on others probably relates to the hidden truth of this 3% tax differential .. For them, their tax burden difference between a state that doesn't tax much at all and a state that taxes a lot is most probably 3% or less.. because they make so little and have so many exemptions that they don't pay anything even in high tax California ... Look over at a family making $250,000 joint :

http://www.ftb.ca.gov/online/Tax_Cal...alculator.aspx

Your tax is ~$19,295 ...

Suddenly .. things get real.

Last edited by yeahthatguy; 04-25-2011 at 05:35 PM..
 
Old 04-25-2011, 08:01 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,715 posts, read 31,035,947 times
Reputation: 9270
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy View Post
Per capita.. aggregates and averages .. It's not third order differential equations.. Tax season just passed. Take 5 min. to calculate what your taxation would be if you lived in Texas vs. California ..

For income alone, I already see a near $18,000 difference.
So much for your wonderful aggregates/averages...

Packed in those averages are people who makes $30k a year and pay didly squat in taxes in CA.
As for this silly 3% per capita nonsense popping up again.. I thought I spent nearly 40 posts not to long ago showing how it was total b.s.
I'm not sure what your point here is. Are you saying the per capita figures are meaningless? Sure it includes the taxes paid by Larry Ellison and Michael Dell. And very low income taxpayers/residents.

To be clear, a $30K per year taxpayer in Texas pays little taxes too unless they own property (unlikely). This person would primarily pay sales taxes.
 
Old 04-25-2011, 08:18 PM
 
Location: California
11,466 posts, read 19,301,128 times
Reputation: 12712
Default Majority of CA Voters support Jerry Brown's budget plan; 63% support tax increase

I wonder who they polled because Nobody I know Dem. or Rep. is for a tax extention or tax increase.
 
Old 04-25-2011, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Los Altos Hills, CA
36,633 posts, read 67,216,638 times
Reputation: 21169
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy View Post
Yet, you don't mind paying a little more in taxes...

I really would love to know why .. what's your reasoning?
If I can be assured that the tax money will be spent directly on education in the classroom and not on administration, if I can be assured tht tax money will be spent directly to care for legal residents who cannot afford to pay for their own health care because they are unable to due to illness or they can't afford it, if I can be assured that tax money will be spent on actually rehabilitating prisoners instead of going to hiring more prison guards, if I can have assurances of all of the above as well as other things that are important to me...than I am in favor of increasing taxes.
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