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Old 04-25-2011, 08:38 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,720 posts, read 25,469,591 times
Reputation: 9216

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
And yet TX sure could use that extra $1,700 per head right about now couldnt it? I mean, its not like TXs state government is doing great without that money. We all know that now. All of the predictions regarding the aftermath of the slash-and-burn cuts TX has been forced to make have been quite dire.

TXs problem seems to be far undertaxation and California's problem is gross overspending.

Somewhere in the middle we will find the answer.
Texas has some very real and significant financial challenges. But I doubt you would find most Texans think they are undertaxed. The single biggest budget issue for Texas right now is the potential cutback in the state's portion of school funding. If I had a vote in the solution - I would increase the portion of public school funding from local taxes. I would agree to a small increase in my property taxes to close the funding gap.

I think it is likely the state will dip into the $8B "rainy day" fund, even though Rick Perry says no. It is a rainy day and we should use it.

 
Old 04-25-2011, 08:51 PM
 
Location: Zurich, Switzerland/ Piedmont, CA
32,261 posts, read 54,988,580 times
Reputation: 15292
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
Texas has some very real and significant financial challenges. But I doubt you would find most Texans think they are undertaxed. The single biggest budget issue for Texas right now is the potential cutback in the state's portion of school funding. If I had a vote in the solution - I would increase the portion of public school funding from local taxes. I would agree to a small increase in my property taxes to close the funding gap.

I think it is likely the state will dip into the $8B "rainy day" fund, even though Rick Perry says no. It is a rainy day and we should use it.
Exactly, despite having very low taxes they still think theyre overtaxed.

This is not a Texas only phenomenon but seems to be a noticeable change in the morality of this whole country-we are less charitable, we are less willing to help others and more likely to villify those who for whatever reason cannot provide for themselves. That's my personal feeling based on the change in rhetoric I've seen over the years.
 
Old 04-25-2011, 09:19 PM
 
813 posts, read 1,536,044 times
Reputation: 629
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
Exactly, despite having very low taxes they still think theyre overtaxed.

This is not a Texas only phenomenon but seems to be a noticeable change in the morality of this whole country-we are less charitable, we are less willing to help others and more likely to villify those who for whatever reason cannot provide for themselves. That's my personal feeling based on the change in rhetoric I've seen over the years.
What the !#*@ are you talking about! I'm suppose to give more so that cops and firefighters can retire at 100+K at 52 years old. I'm suppose to give more so prison guards can cash out 200+k in unused comp time! I'm suppose to give more so millions of illegals immigrants can use are services! I'm suppose to give more really? I tell you what, I'm pretty sure there is a line on the 1040 form that allows you to contribute some extra tax money. Why don't you go ahead and give more, eh?
 
Old 04-25-2011, 09:29 PM
 
Location: Zurich, Switzerland/ Piedmont, CA
32,261 posts, read 54,988,580 times
Reputation: 15292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hwy phantom View Post
What the !#*@ are you talking about! I'm suppose to give more so that cops and firefighters can retire at 100+K at 52 years old. I'm suppose to give more so prison guards can cash out 200+k in unused comp time! I'm suppose to give more so millions of illegals immigrants can use are services!
Yes, those are 100% exactly the reasons I want to raise your taxes. Word for word.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montclair
If I can be assured that the tax money will be spent directly on education in the classroom and not on administration, if I can be assured tht tax money will be spent directly to care for legal residents who cannot afford to pay for their own health care because they are unable to due to illness or they can't afford it, if I can be assured that tax money will be spent on actually rehabilitating prisoners instead of going to hiring more prison guards, if I can have assurances of all of the above as well as other things that are important to me...than I am in favor of increasing taxes.
 
Old 04-25-2011, 09:30 PM
 
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 7,634,511 times
Reputation: 2622
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hwy phantom View Post
What the !#*@ are you talking about! I'm suppose to give more so that cops and firefighters can retire at 100+K at 52 years old. I'm suppose to give more so prison guards can cash out 200+k in unused comp time! I'm suppose to give more so millions of illegals immigrants can use are services!
I have a couple of suggestions that follow your reasoning to its appropriate conclusion.
1. Pledge to never use the services of the police
2. Pledge to never use the services of firefighters
3. Work to empty our prisons and fire all the guards
4. Stop eating the food that the illegals harvest for your table.

I think if enough people who think like you this act on my suggestions our nation will be far better off, and so will you, right?
 
Old 04-25-2011, 09:51 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
13,781 posts, read 23,762,470 times
Reputation: 6175
As often happens here folks have legitimate points on both sides.

Frankly I agree that folks have gotten a bit uptight about government expenditures at all levels. I think this generally comes from the fact that over the past 5 or 6 years many have felt the economic decline for the first time in their lives, and they are concerned. During good times, complaining about government workers generally isn't a major theme.

Some excesses certainly exist, and compensation (including benefits) should be periodically reevaluated. But on the national scale, I don't think police, fire, teachers or "pencil pushers" are compensated significantly better than they were, or different than they were, 25, 40 or even 50 years ago. I think the environment around them has changed, and they are now viewed differently.

Meanwhile, what is wrong with putting the tax issue to a vote?
 
Old 04-25-2011, 10:09 PM
 
813 posts, read 1,536,044 times
Reputation: 629
Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
I have a couple of suggestions that follow your reasoning to its appropriate conclusion.
1. Pledge to never use the services of the police
2. Pledge to never use the services of firefighters
3. Work to empty our prisons and fire all the guards
4. Stop eating the food that the illegals harvest for your table.

I think if enough people who think like you this act on my suggestions our nation will be far better off, and so will you, right?
Nice straw man argument you got there, just because we need cops, fire and prison guards doesn't mean they are entitled to get what ever they want. Secondly it's not like I have a choice of choosing a variety of agencies to pick from to get the best deal on service. And according to my own recollection in my life I have needed the assistance of the fire department once when I cut my head when I was 5 years old and the I have called the police once in my entire life and it was about a suspicous person walking around my apartment late at night, the cop showed up an hour later, drove by my apartment without getting out and took off in less than 5 minutes. But I can tell you about the 100 times I have been pulled over for having one brake light out, or for driving 5mph over the speed limit So I would say I'm not getting my money's worth. And far as the prison guards we wouldn't need so dam many if we didn't try to fight this ridiculous war on drugs. CA has built about 20 new prisons since 1980 and a large part of the population are non violent drug offenders.

Oh and lastly 4. on you list is an absolute joke. Do you know what % of illegals work in the fields? It's less than 5%, so the other 95% are working elsewhere. But hey don't let the facts and logic get in your way.
 
Old 04-25-2011, 10:13 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
15,428 posts, read 25,325,348 times
Reputation: 8863
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToCA View Post
Some excesses certainly exist, and compensation (including benefits) should be periodically reevaluated. But on the national scale, I don't think police, fire, teachers or "pencil pushers" are compensated significantly better than they were, or different than they were, 25, 40 or even 50 years ago. I think the environment around them has changed, and they are now viewed differently.
Public Employees today are indeed getting better benefits and pay than they were in the past. Before the generous benefits made up for the lower pay but now they have the same or higher pay with the same generous benefits. They are viewed differently and rightfully so, their unions have become to big, powerful, and greedy and when you look at the statistics it becomes very clear why there is such a backlash.


Federal workers earning double their private counterparts - USATODAY.com

"Federal workers have been awarded bigger average pay and benefit increases than private employees for nine years in a row. The compensation gap between federal and private workers has doubled in the past decade."

Wisconsin one of 41 states where public workers earn more - USATODAY.com

"The analysis of government data found that public employees' compensation has grown faster than the earnings of private workers since 2000. Primary cause: the rising value of benefits"

"In contrast, California's public employees enjoyed soaring compensation throughout that state's decade-long budget crisis."

"•California. Public employee compensation rose 28% above the inflation rate from 2000 to 2009 to an average of $71,385 in 2009."

Are State and Local Government Employees Paid Too Much? - Graphic - NYTimes.com
 
Old 04-25-2011, 10:15 PM
 
813 posts, read 1,536,044 times
Reputation: 629
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
Yes, those are 100% exactly the reasons I want to raise your taxes. Word for word.
Where does this assurance come from, you think you can dictate for yourself where every penny of your tax dollars are directed and you can monitor exactly how it's spent?
 
Old 04-25-2011, 10:16 PM
 
5,113 posts, read 4,940,006 times
Reputation: 1728
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToCA View Post
As often happens here folks have legitimate points on both sides.

Frankly I agree that folks have gotten a bit uptight about government expenditures at all levels. I think this generally comes from the fact that over the past 5 or 6 years many have felt the economic decline for the first time in their lives, and they are concerned. During good times, complaining about government workers generally isn't a major theme.

Some excesses certainly exist, and compensation (including benefits) should be periodically reevaluated. But on the national scale, I don't think police, fire, teachers or "pencil pushers" are compensated significantly better than they were, or different than they were, 25, 40 or even 50 years ago. I think the environment around them has changed, and they are now viewed differently.

Meanwhile, what is wrong with putting the tax issue to a vote?
I don't agree. The pay, benefits and pensions has been expanding over the years and is way out of control and not equal with equivalent non public workers. I know regular city fireman who make over $200K per year with full benefits and a pension that will pay them at the same level as when they retired for life. These people are not even college educated with a degree. At the same time I work with very skilled and talented engineers and scientist who make less than $200K per year and they are masters and phd's with over 20 years experience ... and they get a 401K for retirement.

We all know why public employees get the big bucks and itís not for skill or performance. It's purely political corruption by the politicians and union. The costs are astronomical and growing each year and the local governments can no longer afford it. The military trains fireman and police in months and those men and woman can outperform civilian public workers any day.
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