5 Reasons People from the Valley and Inland Areas Are Going West (San Diego: renter, how much)
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Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
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Originally Posted by Wilson502
Which is exactly the field im in. And i meet just about all those requirements, except my bachelors which im only a few semesters from finishing. Fresno's high education attainment rates still lack far behind the state average, although the HS diploma attainment is about at the state average now. Looking at property values in seattle, seattle/bellevue is still cheaper than most parts of orange county and the bay area in cali. Id consider vancouver canada as well, but thats long term.
Agreed, they're still a better value than a lot of Cali, but when you look at Seattle area property values, you really gotta look at where they are in relation to the premium employment & tech areas. And those are mostly either right in the Seattle downtown areas or over on the so-called "eastside" (Redmond, Bellevue, Kirkland, etc.). And since both those areas are separated by Lake Washington, your housing location and the sort of commute you have can be a significant variable.
As far as the impact of "immigrants" and educational attainment rates, I can't speak for Fresno. But around here in the north central valley, with plenty of it's own hispanic & hmong populations, there are also clearly several generations of predominantly white poverty here. And I think even more important than any "statistics", is a set of "cultural values" common throughout the whole Valley in general, that seem to enable, if not perpetuate the problem. Chief among them are a noticeable lack of respect for education and higher learning, along with a general suspicion towards "outsiders" and basically anything associated with "new", "change" and the "unfamiliar".
Which is to say that you can improve "education" here 'til the cows come home, but until that underlying culture and attitudes change, it'll just be another example of the 'ol adage that "the more things change, the more they remain the same"!
Agreed, they're still a better value than a lot of Cali, but when you look at Seattle area property values, you really gotta look at where they are in relation to the premium employment & tech areas. And those are mostly either right in the Seattle downtown areas or over on the so-called "eastside" (Redmond, Bellevue, Kirkland, etc.). And since both those areas are separated by Lake Washington, your housing location and the sort of commute you have can be a significant variable.
As far as the impact of "immigrants" and educational attainment rates, I can't speak for Fresno. But around here in the north central valley, with plenty of it's own hispanic & hmong populations, there are also clearly several generations of predominantly white poverty here. And I think even more important than any "statistics", is a set of "cultural values" common throughout the whole Valley in general, that seem to enable, if not perpetuate the problem. Chief among them are a noticeable lack of respect for education and higher learning, along with a general suspicion towards "outsiders" and basically anything associated with "new", "change" and the "unfamiliar".
Which is to say that you can improve "education" here 'til the cows come home, but until that underlying culture and attitudes change, it'll just be another example of the 'ol adage that "the more things change, the more they remain the same"!
Hit the nail right on the head. And I just dont see realistically how things are just gonna magically change here.
As far as the impact of "immigrants" and educational attainment rates, I can't speak for Fresno. But around here in the north central valley, with plenty of it's own hispanic & hmong populations, there are also clearly several generations of predominantly white poverty here. And I think even more important than any "statistics", is a set of "cultural values" common throughout the whole Valley in general, that seem to enable, if not perpetuate the problem. Chief among them are a noticeable lack of respect for education and higher learning, along with a general suspicion towards "outsiders" and basically anything associated with "new", "change" and the "unfamiliar".
I know the type, the "I did OK without an education so my kids can too".
Lack of respect for education can be found in many parts of the US, its not just the Valley. That attitude also exists in many urban areas, not just rural areas. You are right it is found not just immigrants but all ethnic groups including whites.
I'm not sure how far north in the Central Valley you were referring to. But given the Hmong reference I was curious about Merced County, also in the SJV like Fresno.
Educational attainment percentage trends are flat in Merced County vs. Fresno County's increasing education levels. Merced County has not changed the past decade even with UC Merced opening 6 years ago.
Merced County is now 9 percentage points lower than Fresno County in the percentage of adults with a BA/BS or higher, a wider gap then 10 years ago.
I don't know why the difference in trends or if/when something like UCMerced will cause change up there. But there are differences in what is happening in different areas of the Central Valley.
Educational attainment percentage trends are flat in Merced County vs. Fresno County's increasing education levels. Merced County has not changed the past decade even with UC Merced opening 6 years ago.
Merced County is now 9 percentage points lower than Fresno County in the percentage of adults with a BA/BS or higher, a wider gap then 10 years ago.
I don't know why the difference in trends or if/when something like UCMerced will cause change up there. But there are differences in what is happening in different areas of the Central Valley.
UC Merced is a very limited UC campus, in that its core focus is ag. That could be a reason why UC Merced hasnt changed the situation there. That, and look what UC Merced is surrounded by.
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FresnoFacts
I know the type, the "I did OK without an education so my kids can too".
Lack of respect for education can be found in many parts of the US, its not just the Valley. That attitude also exists in many urban areas, not just rural areas. You are right it is found not just immigrants but all ethnic groups including whites.
I'm not sure how far north in the Central Valley you were referring to. But given the Hmong reference I was curious about Merced County, also in the SJV like Fresno.
Educational attainment percentage trends are flat in Merced County vs. Fresno County's increasing education levels. Merced County has not changed the past decade even with UC Merced opening 6 years ago.
Merced County is now 9 percentage points lower than Fresno County in the percentage of adults with a BA/BS or higher, a wider gap then 10 years ago.
I don't know why the difference in trends or if/when something like UCMerced will cause change up there. But there are differences in what is happening in different areas of the Central Valley.
It seems like maybe you see “educational attainment” as some sort of “measure” of things, which I agree it is to some extent, but really no more accurately than say, the number of churches measures local morality, or tract homes really measure affluence. Instead, I think of “education” in a much broader sense, like critical thinking skills, having curiosity about the world beyond our own, or how folks relate to technology & the “new”, or attitudes re: the the pace of change, “Modernism”, and the 21st century notion of “lifelong learning”. And that’s where “cultural values” come in, which are also what often underlies local “politics”.
I’m actually in the northern part of the Sacramento Valley, up around Chico. Though I’m aware folks in the more “southerly” parts think of the “Valley” as really being the San Joaquin Valley. But culturally-speaking, I think what unifies both parts is that they’ve become home to not only the state’s agriculture, but also the people who relate to that way of life, namely the hispanics, asians and the white descendants of the “Okies” who migrated here in huge numbers after the Depression. Call ‘em hillbillies, rednecks, Scotch-Irish, or just “sons of the south”, but they came with a set of values that have arguably remained to this day, and contribute to much of the strong “conservative” streak that we all associate with the Central Valley.
So I’m suggesting that it’s those “cultural values” (especially re: "education") that really underlie the differences between the liberal, hi-tech and more affluent coast, and the chronic poverty and lack of education in the Valley (and yes, also including in many of the other more “rural” parts of the country). And that culture and its stubborn values have all been well-documented by folks like VA Senator Jim Webb, in “Born Fighting: How the Scots-Irish Shaped America”, and historian David Hackett Fischer’s “Albion’s Seed: Four British Folkways in America”.
To be sure, the influence of "ethnic" groups like the Hmong and Mexicans is very important, but for the moment, the "dominant" cultural group in the Valley and inland continues to be these proud & tenacious "sons of the south".
Last edited by mateo45; 08-15-2011 at 11:28 PM..
Reason: links..
I think a good number of people aspire to live at the coast for all the reasons you mentioned.
Having lived inland and in the valleys and now at the coast, I can honestly say I'd sooner move out of state than live away from the California coast.
I feel the same way. That's what I plan on doing if I lose my job. The inland areas are cheap, but compare the cost of living in Bakersfield or Fresno to that of Salt Lake City, Kansas City, or Phoenix. The COL in the latter towns is the same or lower and the quality of life is generally better.
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The San Joaquin Valley still has alot of farmland, is hot, and has a gang problem.
It's cool, it's mountainy and beachy, and a smaller gang problem in the Central Coast. The only gangs are in the larger towns like San Luis Obispo, Salinas, Monterey, Santa Maria, and Paso Robles.
And even then Paso Robles, Salinas, and Santa Maria are the only ones I hear about shootings, gang fights, and more gang related crimes. And their crime is mostly in the downtown areas.
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
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Originally Posted by mysticaltyger
I feel the same way. That's what I plan on doing if I lose my job. The inland areas are cheap, but compare the cost of living in Bakersfield or Fresno to that of Salt Lake City, Kansas City, or Phoenix. The COL in the latter towns is the same or lower and the quality of life is generally better.
This is a very big state, and larger than many countries, and there's way more to life than just "beaches". There are definitely plenty of other beautiful, uncrowded, safe and affordable places "inland" to choose from besides just Bakersfield or Fresno. And the idea of no better place inland from the Cali coast than Kansas City... seriously?!
Frankly am always amazed how many folks who consider themselves "natives" here or who often speak so "authoritatively" re: California, have obviously actually explored very little outside their own little "backyard".
I feel the same way. That's what I plan on doing if I lose my job. The inland areas are cheap, but compare the cost of living in Bakersfield or Fresno to that of Salt Lake City, Kansas City, or Phoenix. The COL in the latter towns is the same or lower and the quality of life is generally better.
This is true. Your dollar goes further when moving to a different state. There isn't one big city like Salt Lake City, Kansas City, or Phoenix in the central valley of California. Most of the areas between the cities of Los Angeles, Bakersfield, and Fresno resembles a third world country.
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
6,454 posts, read 2,320,679 times
Reputation: 3192
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimC2462
This is true. Your dollar goes further when moving to a different state. There isn't one big city like Salt Lake City, Kansas City, or Phoenix in the central valley of California. Most of the areas between the cities of Los Angeles, Bakersfield, and Fresno resembles a third world country.
What's stopping you then (especially if you think liveability is only about "big" and "cheap")?!
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