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Old 05-16-2011, 09:18 PM
 
Location: Boca Raton, FL
711 posts, read 1,626,598 times
Reputation: 349

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Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
I do? Where when and how?
Everything you write betrays a general attitude that teachers, being "professionals", are entitled to a certain standard of living. I was reminding you of the error of such thinking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
Why would I care about credentialism in the public sector as opposed to the private sector
I didn't say you cared about credentialism, I said you were a credentialist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
why would I give a flying hoot about teaching?
I can't say why, but you are one of the most prolific defenders of teachers on this board.
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Old 05-17-2011, 12:05 AM
 
248 posts, read 504,258 times
Reputation: 202
Teachers are State workers. Their salaries and benefits have nothing to do with City workers. Even if City retirees gave up their cola, it would not help the teachers. Two totally separate groups.
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Old 05-18-2011, 12:07 AM
 
19 posts, read 49,333 times
Reputation: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by OC Investor2 View Post
$120k ish. depending on bonus & performance -7ish% SSI ( and the 1/2 my employer pays) - the $8-9k annually for Health ( just the insurance. does'nt cover any out of pocket, which many teachers do not pay either) - the 15% I have to put aside for retirement because I have no pension.

I also have less job security then teachers. Was laid off once and lost 6 months income. No tenure in my profession - despite 17 years experience with top performance ratings every year. I am in a high stress sales job. If I miss my numbers, say, twice, - I'll be gone. Period.

And also unlike teachers, as my income has grown, my employers expect my responsibilites to increase as well. I've been given more people to manage, more complex and larger businesses & customers to handle. I don't do the same work I did 10 years ago and expect to get paid more for it because I've done it more times or gotten more education in my field (which I have). I only get paid more when I produce more.

Lastly I work 52 weeks a year (less 2 weeks vacation) not 40ish.

Yet when you add it all up, I don't make any more then my sons 1st grade teacher. And she gets better bennies. Plus, she is doing the same work, (granted, probably significantly better, but that's not always the case) that she did when she started - or that a new teacher 2 years out of college could do for less.
Everything you say may be true in your case, but so what?

You sound like a jealous & whiny child. Obviously, you made certain choices in your life, like all of us do. Are you really thinking you'd have liked to have become a teacher because their jobs are so easy?

Or... Having spent 6 months unemployed, that you are somehow unique? Do you know how many people, including teachers, have been unemployed even longer than you?

Plenty of us are suffering. The arguments against public employees (including teachers) is actually being driven by the deep pockets of the far right wing, who has skillfully managed to blame victims for our current disastrous recession.

It's called divide and conquer... the divide part has been increasingly successful; the conquer part remains to be seen.

BTW, I am not a teacher, but my children went to public school and had mostly good teachers, w/ couple stinkers thrown in. As a parent you might have to fight to make things right.

If you are honest, I doubt you'd want to be a teacher.
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Old 05-18-2011, 12:31 AM
 
19 posts, read 49,333 times
Reputation: 27
Oops, I forgot ... You make about 120,000, Mr. OC investor?
Again, why are you whining? Is your house too small? Your car too slow, your wife too ordinary?

Clearly, you cannot imagine living paycheck to paycheck, w/ one car (shared by husband and wife), no vacation in 12 years, etc, like many couples where one or both are low level public employees. All you read about are the few bigwigs, many of whom are exempt from civil service rules.
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Old 05-18-2011, 02:13 AM
 
Location: Boca Raton, FL
711 posts, read 1,626,598 times
Reputation: 349
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpmama View Post
like many couples where one or both are low level public employees.
Since public employees make more than private sector ones do, not even counting their superior benefits and lower unemployment rate, I'm not sympathetic.
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Old 05-18-2011, 10:03 PM
 
2,653 posts, read 4,714,815 times
Reputation: 1903
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpmama View Post
Everything you say may be true in your case, but so what?

You sound like a jealous & whiny child. Obviously, you made certain choices in your life, like all of us do. Are you really thinking you'd have liked to have become a teacher because their jobs are so easy?

Or... Having spent 6 months unemployed, that you are somehow unique? Do you know how many people, including teachers, have been unemployed even longer than you?

Plenty of us are suffering. The arguments against public employees (including teachers) is actually being driven by the deep pockets of the far right wing, who has skillfully managed to blame victims for our current disastrous recession.

It's called divide and conquer... the divide part has been increasingly successful; the conquer part remains to be seen.

BTW, I am not a teacher, but my children went to public school and had mostly good teachers, w/ couple stinkers thrown in. As a parent you might have to fight to make things right.

If you are honest, I doubt you'd want to be a teacher.

Welcome to CD, sharpmama. Glad to see you've been here for all of 7 posts and are already tossing around gratuitous insults and ad hominem attacks.

The "so what" is our kids are going to see fewer resources available for their education as teachers pensions, benefits and salary eat up more and more education funding.

Teacher's can't make higher wages then the private sector AND demand better benefits AND generous pensions AND at the same time complain they are poorly compensated and demand more tax dollars from the private sector.
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Old 05-19-2011, 01:23 AM
 
2,311 posts, read 2,881,945 times
Reputation: 1217
Quote:
Originally Posted by OC Investor2 View Post
Welcome to CD, sharpmama. Glad to see you've been here for all of 7 posts and are already tossing around gratuitous insults and ad hominem attacks.

The "so what" is our kids are going to see fewer resources available for their education as teachers pensions, benefits and salary eat up more and more education funding.

Teacher's can't make higher wages then the private sector AND demand better benefits AND generous pensions AND at the same time complain they are poorly compensated and demand more tax dollars from the private sector.
100% agreed OC investor .. I am finding an overall trend to be that people voice a liberal view of things w/o much education on the issue, deep understanding, or appreciation for the long term impacts of something and when anyone points out these all to important factors, a rush comes of :
> ad hominem attacks
> Stop whining
> you don't like it .. leave
> Why are you hating?
> You're racist
> You're some white republican who hates humanity

It is quite sad and most troubling as a millennial to see grown adults act in this manner. It used to be the case that people kept their mouths shut when they didn't know what they are talking about .. Now-a-days, everyone has a view and confidence (most troubling of all) now matter how misinformed/wrong.. which is fine if only they would hash out views to arrive at the truth.. but they dont.. they stick their tongues out like 2 year olds ..put their fingers in their ears and start calling people names.. If this is the level at which discussions are going to occur in this country, we are all truly doomed.

Something inside me though equates this attitude w/ the removal of consequence/accountability in this country... The large amount of handouts/etc the govt. gives out.. For, w/ such aforementioned attitudes above, people embodying them would most surely have faced monetary consequences of some sort... However, given the redistribution of money and power that occurs on a grand level in modern day society, the follies of such childish behavior do not manifest itself in negative consequences.. So, there is in a sense a reinforcement of such behavior.
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Old 05-24-2011, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Butte County
32 posts, read 108,220 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
Your whole point rang of nutdom, and, an intense lack of knowledge of teacher retirement systems. Not to worry, likely you are a conservative, I would not expect rational analysis from a conservative.

It may interest you to know, that on the whole, the only money a retired teacher gets as pension, is money they paid in, nothing extra from the district or state.

Go ahead and research that.
Interesting response . although it didn't respond to any of the issues I raised.

Regarding the teacher retirement systems: I'm pretty familiar with it, I was an IT consultant for STRS and CalPERS and have taught, on and off, for years at CSUs and CCCs. Where the breakdown in the affordability is . is in the wages and health benefits.

Regarding being a conservative . to be more centrist than me would be like Robin Hood splitting another arrow when he hit the bullseye, although I am a fiscal realist, a believer that smaller government is better and am not convinced that public sector unions serve the public.
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Old 05-26-2011, 07:05 AM
 
Location: So Ca
15,643 posts, read 14,907,041 times
Reputation: 13571
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy View Post
It used to be the case that people kept their mouths shut when they didn't know what they are talking about .. Now-a-days, everyone has a view and confidence (most troubling of all) now matter how misinformed/wrong.. which is fine if only they would hash out views to arrive at the truth.. but they dont.. they stick their tongues out like 2 year olds ..put their fingers in their ears and start calling people names.. If this is the level at which discussions are going to occur in this country, we are all truly doomed.
This has to do with anonymity on the Internet, not people's values in general. Some people believe that they can get away with it on an anonymous board. They usually can't IRL.
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Old 05-26-2011, 12:39 PM
 
Location: State of Jefferson coast
965 posts, read 2,614,320 times
Reputation: 1294
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy View Post
It used to be the case that people kept their mouths shut when they didn't know what they are talking about .. Now-a-days, everyone has a view and confidence (most troubling of all) now matter how misinformed/wrong.. which is fine if only they would hash out views to arrive at the truth.. but they dont.. they stick their tongues out like 2 year olds ..put their fingers in their ears and start calling people names..
That's what's known as the Limbaugh Effect. If you are loud enough, insistent enough, and successful in making people angry, a certain percentage of the world's lemmings will follow you no matter how irrational you may be. It worked for Hitler; it worked for Saddam Hussein, and it's currently working for the ayatollahs of the American Taliban as well. Look at how many misguided people and radio stations bought into Harold Camping's claim that the world would end last Saturday. That's why money buys elections: most people's brains are up for sale.
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