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Old 05-08-2011, 10:21 AM
 
4,352 posts, read 2,387,283 times
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Someone just posted a top 10 list (here) of cities with the worst air pollution and the top two cities were in California, 6 of the 10 were in California, none were in Texas. So this over regulation, over taxation for supposed “environmental” reasons apparently is doing nothing to address your concerns.
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Old 05-08-2011, 10:24 AM
 
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Originally Posted by DowntownVentura View Post
This whole survey is a big joke, it wasn't not a random sampling of CEO's, it was a volunteer survey done on the web site of an online magazine. trust me, no serious company was represented.
What can you show to back this statement?
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Old 05-08-2011, 10:37 AM
 
4,352 posts, read 2,387,283 times
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Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
A head in the sand is the operant of an ostrich, and should not be the operant of a human.



200 corporations left California in 2010, there are 2,700,000 corporations in California.

Next question. How many companies incorporated in California last year?

Large corporations often look at the living environment for their employees, which is one of the reasons Nevada is near the bottom for business friendly. Given a choice between living in Las Vegas or living in the Bay area, for most people it is a no brainer, Corporations recognize that.
You use the word corporations like they are all big companies that employ lots of people. One person can be a corporation and many of the corporations have no employees, just principle owners and family members. So your argument means little to me.

Large corporations that employ lots of employees (like the one I work for) do not seek locations to operate solely based on "the living environment for their employees". There are many factors that go into selecting a location to operate and one of the top factors is operating costs. Yes, they do want to attract good employees but there are many locations that fit that requirement and California is no longer included in that list. By the way, my company, one of the largest in California and paying the highest wages, is leaving California because of operating costs and over regulations, so I know of what I speak.
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Old 05-08-2011, 10:59 AM
 
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 3,420,016 times
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Don, your premise that I do not already know each of the points you bring up is wrong. I do not use the word corporation like they are all big companies, that is your interpretation of what I said, an interpretation that has no foundation in anything I said.

For your second paragraph, of course not, but there are few locations in America with the infrastructure and livability index that California has.

It would be interesting for you to give a more detailed explanation of why your firm is leaving. In what way are operating costs higher, and what regulations are so onerous that the company would leave.

Lets say your company moves to Texas. The employees with children would have to put them into the Texas school system. That is a huge negative.

The employees would have to live in Texas, let us hope that their salaries are sufficient to get them out of Texas on weekends and holidays, since there is little to do in Texas, unless one is into bass fishing, and the bass are bigger in California, or golf..

No mountains except in the far west, no coastline worth visiting, no ghost towning, four wheeling or off road motorcycling is highly limited, as is primitive camping (I am sure there are plenty of KOA type places) There is very little public land for recreating. There is nothing like San Francisco.

Now, that is Texas, you can name any other state in the Union and it too is so limited as to arts, culture, universities, and recreational opportunities. Educated, professional people like to visit stuff, and do stuff, and everywhere falls short of California, except perhaps, New York State, and even it does not have nearly the range that California has, in nearly all categories.

Although, I highly recommend corporations and individuals relocate to another state, if there was anything I could do to encourage a mass exodus, I would do it. This was a great state when it had 10,000,000 people and even better when it had 10,000.

Are there specific operating costs and regulations that the state could increase in order to drive people out? If so, I support them. "Extremism in support of empty land is no vice"
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Old 05-08-2011, 11:21 AM
 
4,352 posts, read 2,387,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
Don, your premise that I do not already know each of the points you bring up is wrong. I do not use the word corporation like they are all big companies, that is your interpretation of what I said, an interpretation that has no foundation in anything I said.

For your second paragraph, of course not, but there are few locations in America with the infrastructure and livability index that California has.

It would be interesting for you to give a more detailed explanation of why your firm is leaving. In what way are operating costs higher, and what regulations are so onerous that the company would leave.

Lets say your company moves to Texas. The employees with children would have to put them into the Texas school system. That is a huge negative.

The employees would have to live in Texas, let us hope that their salaries are sufficient to get them out of Texas on weekends and holidays, since there is little to do in Texas, unless one is into bass fishing, and the bass are bigger in California, or golf..

No mountains except in the far west, no coastline worth visiting, no ghost towning, four wheeling or off road motorcycling is highly limited, as is primitive camping (I am sure there are plenty of KOA type places) There is very little public land for recreating. There is nothing like San Francisco.

Now, that is Texas, you can name any other state in the Union and it too is so limited as to arts, culture, universities, and recreational opportunities. Educated, professional people like to visit stuff, and do stuff, and everywhere falls short of California, except perhaps, New York State, and even it does not have nearly the range that California has, in nearly all categories.

Although, I highly recommend corporations and individuals relocate to another state, if there was anything I could do to encourage a mass exodus, I would do it. This was a great state when it had 10,000,000 people and even better when it had 10,000.

Are there specific operating costs and regulations that the state could increase in order to drive people out? If so, I support them. "Extremism in support of empty land is no vice"
I think you need to get out more. Thinking California is the only state that provides good “arts, culture, universities, and recreational opportunities” is very naive.

You also don’t seem to know much about Texas but yet you attempt to trash Texas at every opportunity. Why do you hate Texas so much? I don’t plan on moving to Texas but I do know Texas has some great opportunities and they have good universities, a great business environment and great recreation like lakes, rivers and a great coastline.

Companies with lots of employees don’t want to deal with California because of the cost of living in California. People making middle wage income cannot afford to purchase a decent home in California anymore which is the #1 factor, not schools. The over taxation in California and general high cost of living means a married couple both need to work good full-time jobs just to get by with little left over for savings. These are the employee issues that large corporations look at when looking for operating locations.
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Old 05-08-2011, 11:33 AM
 
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 3,420,016 times
Reputation: 2622
Lets look at what I said, rather than what you think I said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don9 View Post
I think you need to get out more. Thinking California is the only state that provides good “arts, culture, universities, and recreational opportunities” is very naive.

As I stated, no other state as as much of all those as California, most states, especially east of the 100th meridian and including Texas are anemic in variety of recreation opportunities, and in the number of Universities


You also don’t seem to know much about Texas but yet you attempt to trash Texas at every opportunity. Why do you hate Texas so much? I don’t plan on moving to Texas but I do know Texas has some great opportunities and they have good universities, a great business environment and great recreation like lakes, rivers and a great coastline.

I dislike Texas because I dislike flat ground, reservoirs, and lack of public land, and a flat boring coastline.

Companies with lots of employees don’t want to deal with California because of the cost of living in California. People making middle wage income cannot afford to purchase a decent home in California anymore which is the #1 factor, not schools. The over taxation in California and general high cost of living means a married couple both need to work good full-time jobs just to get by with little left over for savings. These are the employee issues that large corporations look at when looking for operating locations.
Overtaxation in California is BS as I have shown many times. But, to refresh your memory, if you make one hundred thousand dollars a year.
In California your total tax burden will be $10,500 per year.
In Texas $8,500 per year.

The difference of $2,000, even 3 or 4 thousand is worth paying in order to not be in Texas.

Tax freedom day in California is April 16, in Texas April 9. Not much real difference.

It is true that housing in CA is higher, but I doubt the general cost of groceries, utilities, etc is much different.
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Old 05-08-2011, 12:16 PM
 
4,352 posts, read 2,387,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
Lets look at what I said, rather than what you think I said.



Overtaxation in California is BS as I have shown many times. But, to refresh your memory, if you make one hundred thousand dollars a year.
In California your total tax burden will be $10,500 per year.
In Texas $8,500 per year.

The difference of $2,000, even 3 or 4 thousand is worth paying in order to not be in Texas.

Tax freedom day in California is April 16, in Texas April 9. Not much real difference.

It is true that housing in CA is higher, but I doubt the general cost of groceries, utilities, etc is much different.
Red bold text must mean you are getting a little hot! LOL

Where did you come up with $2K difference between CA and TX?

Sales Taxes
State Sales Tax: CA = 10.5% (WC) | TX = 6.25%
Gasoline Tax: CA = 46.6 cents/gallon | TX = 20 cents/gallon
Diesel Fuel Tax: CA = 48.7 cents/gallon | TX = 20 cents/gallon


Personal Income Taxes
Tax Rate Range: CA = 9.55% + 0.25% | TX = No state personal income
Retirement Income Taxes: CA = There is a 2.5% tax on early distributions and qualified pensions. All private, local, state and federal pensions are fully taxed.
Retirement Income Taxes: TX = Not Taxed

Property Taxes
CA = Property is assessed at 100% of full cash value. The maximum amount of tax on real estate is limited to 1% of the full cash value. Under the homestead program, the first $7,000 of the full value of a homeowner's dwelling is exempt.
TX =For homeowners 65 and older, $10,000 (in addition to the regular $15,000 homestead exemption) of the property's assessed value is exempt from school taxes and $3,000 is exempt from other local taxes. Once an over-65 homeowner qualifies for an over-65 homestead exemption for school taxes, that owner gets a tax ceiling for that home on school taxes. If the homeowner improves the home (other than normal repairs or maintenance), the tax ceiling is adjusted for the new additions. School district taxes are frozen for seniors (65 and older) and disabled persons at the level imposed on the residence the first year that the taxpayer qualified for the residence exemption. Counties, cities, towns, and junior college districts are permitted to establish a tax freeze on homesteads of those age 65 and older or disabled.
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Old 05-08-2011, 12:38 PM
 
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 3,420,016 times
Reputation: 2622
Red and bold is what I nearly always do to differentiate,,, again, what I write is interpreted by your prejudices, a bad way to do business.

As for taxes, as I stated, total tax burden.
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Old 05-08-2011, 12:48 PM
 
4,352 posts, read 2,387,283 times
Reputation: 1407
Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
Red and bold is what I nearly always do to differentiate,,, again, what I write is interpreted by your prejudices, a bad way to do business.

As for taxes, as I stated, total tax burden.
Texas does not have state personal income tax and all other taxes are much less than California so your $2000 difference (total tax burden) does not hold water.

I paid well over $10,000 in California state personal income tax. That alone is $10,000+ that I would not have to pay if I lived in Texas and that's not the "total tax burden" when you include sales tax, gas tax, utility taxes, property tax, etc.

I need to get the hell out of dodge!

Last edited by Don9; 05-08-2011 at 12:57 PM..
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Old 05-08-2011, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Arroyo Grande, California
5,355 posts, read 3,745,989 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
I just spent 4 days touring California on my moto. Great weather, great scenery, green grass, fine ranches, oil boom in Kern County. Water running in the creeks and rivers, full reservoirs, a little snow in the higher reaches. I5 at the Grapevine was a never ending stream of freight trucks heading up, and rolling down, signs of a busy economy.
Those who think California is "quickly going down the tubes" really need to get out more.

Over the last few years Ive become more tempered in my thoughts on this issue. First I'd like to say that I completely see what you are saying in this post. I used to ride my motorcycle around many of those roads and all over the coastal canyons and I know how thrilling that is. When I come back to California I see people of all walks of life doing their thing; working, living, playing. It tends to soften my thoughts of how things really are there. I see the beauty and the awe of California, even places that are not coveted by locals.
My next point is that. Yes, the state is over regulated. Of course it is. Its not like its a secret or not like its something not easy to see. I look at my industry and I can imagine what it would take to create the same situation that I have here. It would be much more expensive and difficult to accomplish. Does the ability to live in California mitigate some of the effort and sacrifice that it would take. For me it would, but I think that's because I was raised there. For others I don't think so. That's okay though, California can not be all things for all people. I find in general its easier to live here in Texas, far less expensive for most things, and I think people have more discretionary income. I think that's true of all established highly coveted places though. I would like to say though, that theres nothing wrong with living in Texas or most states Ive visited. They are much better than people imagine.
My last point is that I believe California is entering a period of major economic transition. I think the days of hyper growth, sprawl and leading the nation in population growth are coming to an end. I think the state has to transition to a more stable and mature economy. We may look to the northeast states and European countries. Many states (like Texas) are going through that power growth phase and will for some time. I think California has already done that. Besides companies leaving or shutting down, the California economy shows high unemployment because of agriculture and construction. Construction which was in a massive boom phase, nearly shut down completely. Related business stalled or failed from all manner of subcontractor trades to realtors to mortgage companies; surveyors, title companies etc etc.
The state needs to transition and I hope it can without running off companies that create good jobs.
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