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Old 05-11-2011, 03:39 PM
 
2,311 posts, read 2,880,100 times
Reputation: 1217

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oerdin View Post
CalTrans has no experience with this type of work so why would it be better to have them do it then the specialty high speed rail authority? Oh, that's right. It won't but then state Senators Alan Lowenthal and Joe Simitian, who oppose the voter passed HSR, would be better able to kill the HSR system. ****, Lowenthal & Simitian & the LAO which they sit on. If one reads the highly partisan political report then their main stupid objection is that the HSRA wants to begin work in the central valley of California because 1) that section is cheapest 2) the state already owns the right of ways so construction can begin immediately 3) that area has the highest unemployment so they need the jobs most. Of course Lowenthal & Simitian don't like this idea and claim they want to start HSR in the middle of a big city (either LA or SF) even though the state does not yet own those right of ways & litigation will slow those segments down for years possibly up to a decade. Of course, as usual Lowenthal & Simitian are lying because their goal is to make sure no HSR system is ever built and instead this is just yet another attempt by them to put up a road block to prevent the system from getting built. Also if Lowenthal & Simitian can successfully hold things up until the end of the year then they know the state will lose $4 billion in Federal matching funds after which their argument will be "Gee, I guess we didn't get those Federal funds so we should just kill it".

I don't have a problem with stupid partisan politicians lying and playing stupid political games; I do have a problem when folks are so obtuse they don't automatically recognize that is what is going on though. Yeahthatguy, how the hell can you not see this transparently obvious political game playing for what it is? Are you really that naive that you don't know what is going on or are you just being a partisan hack trying to cheer for your own side instead of calling a spade a spade? I for one have no problems calling this a spade.
Let me call a spade a spade.. as I have already done...
The g*ddamn US doesn't have the money to fund this crap.


The debt ceiling will be hit by monday....

Energy markets don't convey an urgency to build this crap.
The u.s has hundreds of billions of dollars of already built highways that can be traversed via alternative energy vehicles.. preserving the working model we have in the u.s of public transport given our urban sprawl which is unlike that of japan... and europe !

The funding of this high speed rail project is a political game and it is not in the best interest of the U.S .. So i could care less about the circle jerk going on in California ... which clown in this senate... which clown in that congress.. what clown in which locality, city, county, state, or federal government wants to do to further their interest. The project itself is a stinking pile of crap ... and this has nothing to do w/ partisan anything ... I don't care to know about which bought fool is fighting another bought fool. It's a stupid endeavor and that's all that needs to be addressed.. so no one should get the funds and the idiots in washington should focus more on solving our debt problem and subsequent debt financing :
Interest Expense Fiscal Year 2011
April $28,895,123,159.28
March $24,460,282,823.69
February $21,759,253,957.26
January $21,122,729,715.18
December $104,700,174,845.03
November $19,396,316,137.56
October $24,142,491,931.22
Fiscal Year Total $244,476,372,569.22

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/r...ir_expense.htm
Available Historical Data Fiscal Year End
2010 $413,954,825,362.17
2009 $383,071,060,815.42

Than sitting here trying to win political points buy throwing borrowed money at a bunch of monkeys in various states ! ...

There, is that calling it a spade? Is that non-partisan enough?
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Old 05-11-2011, 03:42 PM
 
1,687 posts, read 5,368,903 times
Reputation: 815
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy View Post
"The LAO estimated that should the state issue all of those bonds, its "total principal and interest costs for repaying the debt would be $18 billion to $20 billion. This would require annual debt service payments of roughly $1 billion for the next two decades."
I don't know why people would be surprised about that statement, it is the same total bond cost (principal/interest) that was in the ballot summary when California voters approved this bond in 2008.

The only difference I see is the estimated annual payment, but they used two decades in the report vs three decades as shown on the ballot which changes the payment. Seems strange they simply would change the number of years like that in their analysis, almost like they wanted to have a larger annual payment to use as a criticism.

Proposition 1A's (HSR proposition) summary in 2008 said
State costs of about $19.4 billion, assuming 30 years to pay off both principal ($9.95 billion) and interest ($9.5 billion) costs of the bonds. Payments of about $647 million per year.
The official Prop 1A summary from the ballot is still readable at:
http://voterguide.sos.ca.gov/past/20...-title-sum.htm
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Old 06-24-2011, 09:29 AM
 
11,715 posts, read 35,869,308 times
Reputation: 7510
Hampered by an 'air of unreality' | rail, billion, authority - News - The Orange County Register
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Old 06-24-2011, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Las Flores, Orange County, CA
26,346 posts, read 82,786,473 times
Reputation: 17500
I'd vote for it if the train went from South OC to El Segundo and it had free broadband and potpourri fresh restrooms with an attendant handing out warm towels.
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Old 06-24-2011, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Zurich, Switzerland/ Piedmont, CA
32,253 posts, read 54,953,187 times
Reputation: 15287
From the article:
But the legislative analyst says federal funding may amount to less than $4 billion -- a $15 billion shortfall.

Ballooning costs: The rail authority's $45 billion construction estimate may be $22 billion too low, the legislative analyst says. Cost overruns of the sort that have afflicted other big U.S. projects could drive the actual price above $200 billion, according to a critical study by a Stanford University professor.

So in reality, we could be $15B short of funding even in the rosiest scenario.

And in the worst scenario, it could cost $200 BILLION.

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Old 06-24-2011, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Police State
1,472 posts, read 2,022,430 times
Reputation: 1227
Any HSR project always looks so good on paper until you start building it. HSR should be strictly regional and even then it's questionable if it will ever really "pay" for itself. "But in Europe and Japan, blah, blah, blah......" Different scenario and different rules. Japan and France for example, don't have to deal with the EPA and all the subsequent lawsuits from irrational environmentalists the way we do in America.

Just look at BART for crying out loud. I love it, but the thing is a money pit for a reason. I'm even skeptical of how Hawaii's upcoming rail system will turn out, they really do need one, but still.
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Old 06-24-2011, 11:09 AM
 
12,825 posts, read 20,054,090 times
Reputation: 10905
I think most Americans have no clue about how crowded both Western Europe and Japan are. Trains there have good ridership because the countries are packed full of peeps.

And even then, the taxpayer still subsidizes it!
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Old 06-24-2011, 11:15 AM
 
2,653 posts, read 4,710,799 times
Reputation: 1903
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
Fine , then give the Northeastern states the $$$ so we can build our HSR / Intercity Rail network.....by 2030 will be the only region with a European network and prepared for the future while the rest of the country moans and whines about Gas and Fuel prices....
You are welcome to all the rail funding you can get - ours included. We'll take your federal highway funds in return.

The Northeast is a great place for rail because the region's compactness and population density support it. So more power to you, build all the trains you want, makes perfect sense for you.

It does not, however, make any sense for CA where the population is clustered into two spawling regional metro areas that are seperated by hundreds of miles of low density countryside. We need better roads, regional rail & bus corridors.
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Old 06-24-2011, 11:27 AM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,422 posts, read 22,264,430 times
Reputation: 8613
Quote:
Originally Posted by DynamoLA View Post
I completely agree with this assessment.

At the end of the day, I am asking myself "we are paying $50B+ for what exactly?".

The answer seems to be "we are paying $50B to be able to get from LA to San Francisco in about the same time it would take to travel the same distance via plane" (including travel to airport, security checks, etc etc.).

Holy crap we could be spending that money on much more beneficial things -- Metro Rail expansion, freeway expansion, airport terminal improvements, etc.

I am not a right wing tea party whack job, I am just a person looking at this situation analytically. We should not be spending scarce funds on something that will have minimal benefit, other than "having the next new shiny toy on the block".
This is not a liberal vs conservative thing. It's a sensible vs idiotic thing. I agree with montclair and yeahthatguy as well, and you. We just gotta have the biggest new toy even though we need infrastructure improvements very badly. It's like those families who go out and buy a new car while their house goes into foreclosure.
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Old 06-24-2011, 12:12 PM
 
Location: The Valley
63 posts, read 126,646 times
Reputation: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by OC Investor2 View Post
You are welcome to all the rail funding you can get - ours included. We'll take your federal highway funds in return.

The Northeast is a great place for rail because the region's compactness and population density support it. So more power to you, build all the trains you want, makes perfect sense for you.

It does not, however, make any sense for CA where the population is clustered into two spawling regional metro areas that are seperated by hundreds of miles of low density countryside. We need better roads, regional rail & bus corridors.
QFT! I think a light rail line that parallels the 101 and 405 from the valley to DTLA and the Westside would be infinitely more practical than a Bay Area-LA link
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