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Old 05-10-2011, 03:41 PM
 
2,311 posts, read 2,888,773 times
Reputation: 1217

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State report hammers high-speed rail plans - San Jose Mercury News
Of course, when Florida/others rejected the funds for such reasons... All of the clowns came out of the word work declaring it a win for their state... "oh those stupid republicans... blah blah blah" ....

California showing just how it becomes a front runner jumps out in front w/ no regard to what this does to the federal deficit and clamors for (deficit funded) handout while throwing itself under a bus w/ the debt it incurs to construct the rail.. then it goes on about yapping about (Oh .. the long term benefits...blah blah blah) .. meanwhile crying Armageddon is coming and can't even afford to properly educate its populous ...

Reminds me of the to big to fail corporations that took on way more than they could manage and when shtf came trying to appeal to everyone that the world is going to end if they aren't bailed out.

California IMO quite often tries to front the trend (that will come via regular market forces in due time) of anything that glistens .. much to the demise of the states' finances and to the taxation punishment of its populous...

"The LAO estimated that should the state issue all of those bonds, its "total principal and interest costs for repaying the debt would be $18 billion to $20 billion. This would require annual debt service payments of roughly $1 billion for the next two decades."

It costs to ffw the future .. California is no stranger to this though.. Gotta be first and show it is the #1 state in America... #1 or bust ... a similar theme from wallstreet
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Old 05-10-2011, 05:46 PM
 
Location: Zurich, Switzerland/ Piedmont, CA
32,376 posts, read 55,173,351 times
Reputation: 15454
We should only issue bonds once projects are set to begin after all legal challenges and delays have been exhausted-not just because voters have approved them.

The HSR bond is what? $9 Billion but it turns out the true cost is going to be well over $40 Billion???? What a huge waste. That $40 Billion price tag would never have flown with voters but proponents of the HSR were allowed to engage in false advertising in order to hook voters. Seems that happens a lot.

I find the HSR group to be extremely arrogant and unwilling to compromise-IE the complaints by the Peninsula cities is falling on totally deaf ears.

There should be a clause that any such bond measure must have a complete non-partisan cost analysis by people who don't have an agenda.

We have tons of other things we could be spending money on and they would have a much more profound affect on intrastate travel. Like expanding airports, like improving our crappy freeways, like modernizing and expanding existing subway and light rail lines and so forth.
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Old 05-10-2011, 07:08 PM
 
2,311 posts, read 2,888,773 times
Reputation: 1217
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
We should only issue bonds once projects are set to begin after all legal challenges and delays have been exhausted-not just because voters have approved them.

The HSR bond is what? $9 Billion but it turns out the true cost is going to be well over $40 Billion???? What a huge waste. That $40 Billion price tag would never have flown with voters but proponents of the HSR were allowed to engage in false advertising in order to hook voters. Seems that happens a lot.

I find the HSR group to be extremely arrogant and unwilling to compromise-IE the complaints by the Peninsula cities is falling on totally deaf ears.

There should be a clause that any such bond measure must have a complete non-partisan cost analysis by people who don't have an agenda.

We have tons of other things we could be spending money on and they would have a much more profound affect on intrastate travel. Like expanding airports, like improving our crappy freeways, like modernizing and expanding existing subway and light rail lines and so forth.
Agree w/ you here Montclair
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Old 05-10-2011, 07:51 PM
 
Location: Glendale, CA
1,298 posts, read 2,112,355 times
Reputation: 1374
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
We have tons of other things we could be spending money on and they would have a much more profound affect on intrastate travel. Like expanding airports, like improving our crappy freeways, like modernizing and expanding existing subway and light rail lines and so forth.
I completely agree with this assessment.

At the end of the day, I am asking myself "we are paying $50B+ for what exactly?".

The answer seems to be "we are paying $50B to be able to get from LA to San Francisco in about the same time it would take to travel the same distance via plane" (including travel to airport, security checks, etc etc.).

Holy crap we could be spending that money on much more beneficial things -- Metro Rail expansion, freeway expansion, airport terminal improvements, etc.

I am not a right wing tea party whack job, I am just a person looking at this situation analytically. We should not be spending scarce funds on something that will have minimal benefit, other than "having the next new shiny toy on the block".
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Old 05-10-2011, 10:15 PM
hsw
 
2,144 posts, read 6,351,538 times
Reputation: 1518
Trains and planes are 20th century Luddite tech in era of Net, mobile computing, google/virtual tourism, videoconferencing on iPhone, etc

Any business traveler is fine with paying own way (pd by employer) via private airlines, NetJets, etc

And any tourist should pay own way and not expect taxpayer to subsidize bill for Luddite travel for personal pleasure

Trains/mass transit are commie travel modalities: enabled by raping taxpayer to subsidize travels of poors/economically unproductive

In SV, google, etc run own rented vans to bus in own poor yuppie workers from SF to SV: why should taxpayers foot bill for these lifestyle choices of the poor????
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Old 05-11-2011, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Northern California
3,681 posts, read 13,165,035 times
Reputation: 1835
Quote:
Originally Posted by hsw View Post
Trains and planes are 20th century Luddite tech in era of Net, mobile computing, google/virtual tourism, videoconferencing on iPhone, etc

Any business traveler is fine with paying own way (pd by employer) via private airlines, NetJets, etc

And any tourist should pay own way and not expect taxpayer to subsidize bill for Luddite travel for personal pleasure

Trains/mass transit are commie travel modalities: enabled by raping taxpayer to subsidize travels of poors/economically unproductive

In SV, google, etc run own rented vans to bus in own poor yuppie workers from SF to SV: why should taxpayers foot bill for these lifestyle choices of the poor????
Huh?? Do you know what "Luddite" means? It means the opposition to technical or technology change or innovation. By that definition, Luddites would be opposed to the Net, mobile computing, google/virtual tourism, videoconferencing, iPhones, etc. Trains and planes, on the other hand, have been around for a century and I think the Luddites are use to them by now.

But I agree with the HSR train to nowhere being a boondoggle that will bankrupt the state.
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Old 05-11-2011, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Zurich, Switzerland/ Piedmont, CA
32,376 posts, read 55,173,351 times
Reputation: 15454
Quote:
California's high-speed rail project has inadequate management and a governing structure in need of sweeping reform.

The report recommended that the Legislature strip the nine-member California High-Speed Rail Authority board of its decision-making powers and that responsibility for the line's development be shifted to the California Department of Transportation.

California high-speed rail: Report questions bullet-train project's management and governing structure - latimes.com
What a scathing indictment. I totally agree.
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Old 05-11-2011, 12:48 PM
 
Location: On the Rails in Northern NJ
12,381 posts, read 23,379,736 times
Reputation: 4519
Fine , then give the Northeastern states the $$$ so we can build our HSR / Intercity Rail network.....by 2030 will be the only region with a European network and prepared for the future while the rest of the country moans and whines about Gas and Fuel prices....
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Old 05-11-2011, 01:20 PM
 
2,311 posts, read 2,888,773 times
Reputation: 1217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey View Post
Fine , then give the Northeastern states the $$$ so we can build our HSR / Intercity Rail network.....by 2030 will be the only region with a European network and prepared for the future while the rest of the country moans and whines about Gas and Fuel prices....
Or how about they don't give anyone the money and pay down the freaking deficit ... When prices continue to rise to certain breaking points, alternatives will be found .. As for Europe ...

Right on time :
Pictures From A Violent (And Media Blacked Out) Greek Exhibition | zero hedge







I love how people keep referencing Europe w/o any idea of how much of a financial mess they are in...
Spain, portugal, greece are all on the verge of collapse. The oppressive tax structure doesn't spur on any major presence of tech/etc...
It's a socialist mess ... it's a large oppressive public service sector w/ no supporting private sector (namely because the public sector destroyed it) ...

People the U.S drive cars... our transportation network is a wide and beautiful array of roads/highways...when gas prices get higher people drive less ..... cars get more fuel efficient .. become hybrids.. become EVs... we start taping our huge natural gas supply ... Our country layout isn't meant for high speed rails ... It's an idiot pet project to try to get votes.

But feel free to reference the ever collapsing European union that was built w/ rail infrastructure from long ago.. ignore the hundreds of billions of dollars of highways we have an potential for vehicles to use alternative fuels and claim we should follow some European model.. -_-) wow
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Old 05-11-2011, 01:46 PM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
4,883 posts, read 7,321,716 times
Reputation: 1903
CalTrans has no experience with this type of work so why would it be better to have them do it then the specialty high speed rail authority? Oh, that's right. It won't but then state Senators Alan Lowenthal and Joe Simitian, who oppose the voter passed HSR, would be better able to kill the HSR system. ****, Lowenthal & Simitian & the LAO which they sit on. If one reads the highly partisan political report then their main stupid objection is that the HSRA wants to begin work in the central valley of California because 1) that section is cheapest 2) the state already owns the right of ways so construction can begin immediately 3) that area has the highest unemployment so they need the jobs most. Of course Lowenthal & Simitian don't like this idea and claim they want to start HSR in the middle of a big city (either LA or SF) even though the state does not yet own those right of ways & litigation will slow those segments down for years possibly up to a decade. Of course, as usual Lowenthal & Simitian are lying because their goal is to make sure no HSR system is ever built and instead this is just yet another attempt by them to put up a road block to prevent the system from getting built. Also if Lowenthal & Simitian can successfully hold things up until the end of the year then they know the state will lose $4 billion in Federal matching funds after which their argument will be "Gee, I guess we didn't get those Federal funds so we should just kill it".

I don't have a problem with stupid partisan politicians lying and playing stupid political games; I do have a problem when folks are so obtuse they don't automatically recognize that is what is going on though. Yeahthatguy, how the hell can you not see this transparently obvious political game playing for what it is? Are you really that naive that you don't know what is going on or are you just being a partisan hack trying to cheer for your own side instead of calling a spade a spade? I for one have no problems calling this a spade.
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