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Old 05-26-2011, 08:55 PM
 
Location: Dublin, CA
3,813 posts, read 3,647,240 times
Reputation: 3967

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
Really??? Please explain to me how I can pull over a speeding driver and arrest someone for drunk driving? Who gave me the authority and when?
The California State Legislature gave you the authority many, many, many moons ago. To simplify things, I'll try and explain it to you, so please read slowly. And I don't really care what you heard on TV, saw watching re-runs on Adam 12, TJ Hooker, and what your brothers cousin told you.

There are two primary penal code sections which give people (read that again, slowly) PEOPLE the authority to arrest in California. Penal Code Section 836, commonly referred too as a peace officers authority to arrest and Penal Code Section 837. Commonly referred too as a private persons authority to arrest. Without going into alot of mumbo jumbo, the only two MAJOR differences are as follows:

A peace officer may make an arrest for an outstanding arrest warrant. A private person cannot.

A peace officer can make an arrest for a felony, not committed in his/her presence, whether or not, in fact, a felony has been committed. For a private person to make an arrest for a felony, a felony MUST have been committed.

OTHER then those two things, authority to arrest in California is NO DIFFERENT, from a peace officer to a private person.

So, yes, a private person can do all the cool things you froth your mouth over, on TV. However, people do not normally do so, because they chose to allow the police to do it for them. Mostly, they are scared cowards, and do not want to get involved.

Yes, a private person can conduct a criminal investigation, write the report, and send it to the district attorney. "A legal report." Are you really that ignorant?

I am a police officer and have done this job for 22 years. I write down on a piece of paper, what you tell me (gee, you mean somoene lied to me????) and send it to the district attorney. What is the difference, if I write it or you write it?

If only a peace officer could submit arrest reports, etc to the district attorney, who do all these insurance companies hire to conduct fraud investigations? You know, all these private persons who go out, conduct investigations, get warrants for peoples arrest, etc? They aren't sworn peace officers; just regular old joe's like you.

You realize, of course (probably not in your make believe world), due to cost cutting measures, many police departments, all across this country, are hiring civilian workers, to conduct these investigations and get warrants for persons arrests, and then the police serve the warrants? Yes, gosh, Dr Phil, you mean a private person who isn't a police officer can do this??? Golly gee whiz...You mean the hundreds of thousands of internal security who conduct embezzlement investigations and get warrants for their employees arrest? All without the "fabled police officer" involved...

Oh, wait a minute. What about the hundreds of bail enforcement officers, who kick down doors, and arrest people, and take them to the judge. They aren't peace officers either. Oh yeah, I didn't think of that. Oh, wait, what about all the loss prevention officers at Sears, Walmart, JC Penny's, who arrest people, write the "official" police report, and get cases charged in court, with no police officer involvement whatsoever? Uh, duh, didn't think of that...

You might be a great ABC Widget person. But you don't know jack about police work, criminal law, laws of evidence, or how anything else is ran in this field. I suggest you learn more, before spouting off, police officers have some mystical great powers. They are no more powerful then the power YOU give them.
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Old 05-26-2011, 11:35 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,422 posts, read 22,267,510 times
Reputation: 8613
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil306 View Post
The California State Legislature gave you the authority many, many, many moons ago. To simplify things, I'll try and explain it to you, so please read slowly. And I don't really care what you heard on TV, saw watching re-runs on Adam 12, TJ Hooker, and what your brothers cousin told you.

There are two primary penal code sections which give people (read that again, slowly) PEOPLE the authority to arrest in California. Penal Code Section 836, commonly referred too as a peace officers authority to arrest and Penal Code Section 837. Commonly referred too as a private persons authority to arrest. Without going into alot of mumbo jumbo, the only two MAJOR differences are as follows:

A peace officer may make an arrest for an outstanding arrest warrant. A private person cannot.

A peace officer can make an arrest for a felony, not committed in his/her presence, whether or not, in fact, a felony has been committed. For a private person to make an arrest for a felony, a felony MUST have been committed.

OTHER then those two things, authority to arrest in California is NO DIFFERENT, from a peace officer to a private person.

So, yes, a private person can do all the cool things you froth your mouth over, on TV. However, people do not normally do so, because they chose to allow the police to do it for them. Mostly, they are scared cowards, and do not want to get involved.

Yes, a private person can conduct a criminal investigation, write the report, and send it to the district attorney. "A legal report." Are you really that ignorant?

I am a police officer and have done this job for 22 years. I write down on a piece of paper, what you tell me (gee, you mean somoene lied to me????) and send it to the district attorney. What is the difference, if I write it or you write it?

If only a peace officer could submit arrest reports, etc to the district attorney, who do all these insurance companies hire to conduct fraud investigations? You know, all these private persons who go out, conduct investigations, get warrants for peoples arrest, etc? They aren't sworn peace officers; just regular old joe's like you.

You realize, of course (probably not in your make believe world), due to cost cutting measures, many police departments, all across this country, are hiring civilian workers, to conduct these investigations and get warrants for persons arrests, and then the police serve the warrants? Yes, gosh, Dr Phil, you mean a private person who isn't a police officer can do this??? Golly gee whiz...You mean the hundreds of thousands of internal security who conduct embezzlement investigations and get warrants for their employees arrest? All without the "fabled police officer" involved...

Oh, wait a minute. What about the hundreds of bail enforcement officers, who kick down doors, and arrest people, and take them to the judge. They aren't peace officers either. Oh yeah, I didn't think of that. Oh, wait, what about all the loss prevention officers at Sears, Walmart, JC Penny's, who arrest people, write the "official" police report, and get cases charged in court, with no police officer involvement whatsoever? Uh, duh, didn't think of that...

You might be a great ABC Widget person. But you don't know jack about police work, criminal law, laws of evidence, or how anything else is ran in this field. I suggest you learn more, before spouting off, police officers have some mystical great powers. They are no more powerful then the power YOU give them.
This is all on the California guard card exam. This is what's called a citizens arrest. Even as a security guard, citizens arrest is something you want to avoid unless you know exactly what you're doing. You have to prove in court that you really had the right to detain a person, otherwise it's wrongful arrest.

Also, placing someone under citizens arrest does not mean you can book them and take them to jail. What is means is you can detain them until the police come. Once the police come, they have to a). take them off of private property if that's the case or b). continue legal arrest procedures.

And yes I understand when one can make a CA.
Quote:
A private person may arrest another:
1. For a public offense committed or attempted in his presence.
2. When the person arrested has committed a felony, although not
in his presence.
3. When a felony has been in fact committed, and he has reasonable
cause for believing the person arrested to have committed it.
California Penal Code Section 837 - California Attorney Resources - California Laws

In other words, if you see fresh spray paint on the wall and a kid walking away with a can of paint, you cannot arrest him.

However if you see someone covered in blood and someone standing over them with a knife, you can arrest them.

None of this in any way gives the average person the same power as the police. Even with a citizens arrest, the police still have to be called.
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Old 05-30-2011, 07:46 PM
 
Location: Dublin, CA
3,813 posts, read 3,647,240 times
Reputation: 3967
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
This is all on the California guard card exam. This is what's called a citizens arrest. Even as a security guard, citizens arrest is something you want to avoid unless you know exactly what you're doing. You have to prove in court that you really had the right to detain a person, otherwise it's wrongful arrest.

Also, placing someone under citizens arrest does not mean you can book them and take them to jail. What is means is you can detain them until the police come. Once the police come, they have to a). take them off of private property if that's the case or b). continue legal arrest procedures.

And yes I understand when one can make a CA.California Penal Code Section 837 - California Attorney Resources - California Laws

In other words, if you see fresh spray paint on the wall and a kid walking away with a can of paint, you cannot arrest him.

However if you see someone covered in blood and someone standing over them with a knife, you can arrest them.

None of this in any way gives the average person the same power as the police. Even with a citizens arrest, the police still have to be called.
Yes, and as a police officer, which I am and have been for 22 years, arresting someone is something you want to avoid at all costs too. Doesn't change a thing. You are still VERY ignorant went it comes to criminal law in California. Simple fact of the matter and your original posts/comments: Police officers have NO MORE authority, other then I have listed, then a private person.

An arrest is an arrest. Doesn't matter if its a police officer or a private person. The California Legislature made sure of that.

Stick to what you know. You don't know criminal law. I teach it. I live it. I know it. You do not.

I'm off now, to go to Staples, with my secret decoder ring, to do a ring knock. I'll give them my secret code and get the "special" behind the counter 8X10 white paper. You know, the one with the secret code embedded on it which makes it "official." The one that you can't send to the DA as a private person...
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Old 05-30-2011, 07:57 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,422 posts, read 22,267,510 times
Reputation: 8613
Quote:
Yes, and as a police officer, which I am and have been for 22 years, arresting someone is something you want to avoid at all costs too
This statement is most likely not true. You know full well you are no police officer.
Quote:
You are still VERY ignorant went it comes to criminal law in California
Right back at you but omitting everything from the word "went" onward.
Quote:
Police officers have NO MORE authority, other then I have listed, then a private person
Interesting you say this now. Other than what you listed? Earlier you specifically said
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil306 View Post
You are completely wrong. You can do all that and more. Once again, ignorance rearing its ugly head.

Again, specifically what can a police officer do, you cannot do?
Now you're saying you've listed some exceptions apparently. All that and more right?

A private person can write a statement for the police. A private person cannot write an actual police report. Please, correct me if I'm wrong but provide some proof.
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Old 05-30-2011, 08:32 PM
 
Location: Dublin, CA
3,813 posts, read 3,647,240 times
Reputation: 3967
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gentoo View Post
This statement is most likely not true. You know full well you are no police officer.Right back at you but omitting everything from the word "went" onward.Interesting you say this now. Other than what you listed? Earlier you specifically said
Now you're saying you've listed some exceptions apparently. All that and more right?

A private person can write a statement for the police. A private person cannot write an actual police report. Please, correct me if I'm wrong but provide some proof.
Yes as I figured. You are a person, who wanted to be a police officer and couldn't. Failed the psyche or background; hence the quote of the "guard card." So, you are a typical anti police loser, I figured you would be.

Ok, here goes. Here it is: I am a police officer for 22 years and, since you say you live in California and want "proof." I am OPENLY asking you to come on a ride along with ME. Yes, me. Phil is my real name and 306 is my badge number. I work in the SF Bay Area for one dept for the past 22 years.

You name the assignment, I've worked it: Patrol, investigations, narcotics, vice, FTO, Crime Scene, et al. I am a Use of Force Expert, my dept's Lead Firearm's Instructor, Special Response Unit, et al. And my resume is longer then you are tall.

Now, an "offical" police report, which I have no clue what that is. I really don't, even though I've written THOUSAND's can be written by ANYONE on ANYTHING. Get your red crayon, which I am sure you know how to use, and write it on a piece of cardboard. That is official.

Grow up and get a life. You don't know what policing is or what it entails. ANYONE can ARREST ANYONE in California. The laws were written for the common person, just like they were written for me. I have no more power then anyone else in this state, except for what I have said.
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Old 05-30-2011, 08:42 PM
 
2,311 posts, read 2,880,377 times
Reputation: 1217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil306 View Post
Yes as I figured. You are a person, who wanted to be a police officer and couldn't. Failed the psyche or background; hence the quote of the "guard card." So, you are a typical anti police loser, I figured you would be.

Ok, here goes. Here it is: I am a police officer for 22 years and, since you say you live in California and want "proof." I am OPENLY asking you to come on a ride along with ME. Yes, me. Phil is my real name and 306 is my badge number. I work in the SF Bay Area for one dept for the past 22 years.

You name the assignment, I've worked it: Patrol, investigations, narcotics, vice, FTO, Crime Scene, et al. I am a Use of Force Expert, my dept's Lead Firearm's Instructor, Special Response Unit, et al. And my resume is longer then you are tall.

Now, an "offical" police report, which I have no clue what that is. I really don't, even though I've written THOUSAND's can be written by ANYONE on ANYTHING. Get your red crayon, which I am sure you know how to use, and write it on a piece of cardboard. That is official.

Grow up and get a life. You don't know what policing is or what it entails. ANYONE can ARREST ANYONE in California. The laws were written for the common person, just like they were written for me. I have no more power then anyone else in this state, except for what I have said.
I don't really care what your career record is .. or what you do for a living .. Gentoo made clear and reasonable statements "I cannot arrest anyone (citizens arrest don't count as they are completely different), I cannot actually take anyone to jail and bring charges against them. I cannot pull a drunk driver over for suspicion of DUI. I cannot ticket a car. I cannot pull you over if you speed past me. I cannot enforce any laws even if I fully understand them. I cannot miss a court date like many who write tickets often do.

You get the idea."

The only thing you are trying to do is carry on like you don't have any sense. I guess what glorious thing you are referring to is 'citizens' arrest... Yes, according to you if Gentoo believes someone is DUI'ing doing 72 mph in a 65 on 101 he can race his car after them and use force to bring them under arrest ... Bring them down to the police station with a written statement of his observations and be perfectly free of any charges and see this person in court ... You're a joke by saying "I have no more power then anyone else in this state, except for what I have said." if you truly are a police officer.. I think 99.9% of people on this board dont' believe you due to the most basic understanding of law and power. Only person you are fooling is yourself w/ such non-factual statements

Cops have a lot more power than the avg. regular citizen in any state in this country.
I don't have to ride shotgun in your patrol car nor does anyone to become aware of this... All anyone has to do is be innocently on the receiving end of a bad 'observation' on your behalf to see just how much 'power' they don't have in the matter. See you zooming down the highway doing 100 mph breaking the law w/ no sirens on at night scaring the beejesus out of someone.. Or hey, look at what you guys do to Iraq war veterans :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LsxnRUNKuE
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/mari...-team-13709433
Yeah regular citizens can burst down someone's door and fire 71 rounds in 7 seconds into their home because they suspect drugs are being dealt ...
oh and then once they have mowed you down w/ bullets ...let you sit their in your pool of blood and bleed out for an hour or so... GTFO here man

Last edited by yeahthatguy; 05-30-2011 at 08:54 PM..
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Old 05-31-2011, 12:11 AM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,422 posts, read 22,267,510 times
Reputation: 8613
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil306 View Post
Yes as I figured. You are a person, who wanted to be a police officer and couldn't. Failed the psyche or background; hence the quote of the "guard card." So, you are a typical anti police loser, I figured you would be.

Ok, here goes. Here it is: I am a police officer for 22 years and, since you say you live in California and want "proof." I am OPENLY asking you to come on a ride along with ME. Yes, me. Phil is my real name and 306 is my badge number. I work in the SF Bay Area for one dept for the past 22 years.

You name the assignment, I've worked it: Patrol, investigations, narcotics, vice, FTO, Crime Scene, et al. I am a Use of Force Expert, my dept's Lead Firearm's Instructor, Special Response Unit, et al. And my resume is longer then you are tall.

Now, an "offical" police report, which I have no clue what that is. I really don't, even though I've written THOUSAND's can be written by ANYONE on ANYTHING. Get your red crayon, which I am sure you know how to use, and write it on a piece of cardboard. That is official.

Grow up and get a life. You don't know what policing is or what it entails. ANYONE can ARREST ANYONE in California. The laws were written for the common person, just like they were written for me. I have no more power then anyone else in this state, except for what I have said.
This is the single most idiotic post you have made so far. Any police officer who would offer anyone a ride along would at least tell the person what city in the Bay Area there are in. See I have an uncle who is a retired captain from one Bay Area police department. Careful what you tell me here as far as which one you are fictitiously at. But beside all that, what kind of police officer would offer a complete stranger on the internet a ride along?

Now you're saying that you've written official police reports but you don't know what one is??? You don't know that it's a legal document and is submittable in court it's that official? Then you started talking about Crayons and cardboad LOL!

On second thought, maybe you are a police officer which would explain some of the idiotic things we've been discussing in this thread. The only thing I can think of is that you too exception to some of them and this is your way of dealing with it; hijack the thread so no one else says what you don't like. The joke's on you dude.
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