Active weather pattern (San Diego, Fresno, Sacramento: Home Depot, subdivisions, stores)

[westcoast30]

Originally Posted by Sealtite

Coming from Pittsburgh, I laugh my ass off when people talk about the "rainy season" here in San Diego county. I checked into it, and it rains during the winter for a few days a month. Lol. Try stepping outside and having your face go numb in seconds, not seeing the sun for 5 months straight, and weeks long rain events in the spring and fall. This past spring, it rained nonstop for almost 2 months straight. Even I was surprised that the flooding wasn't more severe.

Me too! I grew up in Scranton, PA (almost as gloomy as Pittsburgh) and you are right, it is not suitable for human beings. Unlike Pittsburgh, Scranton (being in eastern PA) will experience heavy rainfall off the coast and severe Nor'easters.... which equals heavy flooding and treacherous winters. The rain in Pittsburgh seems more moderate... The rain in Scranton, OTOH, keeps people from driving! Last spring, I flew in for Easter. Did not see the sun once. In fact, there was no spring in Scranton this past spring! I heard it rained almost every day, and if it wasn't raining, it was still overcast. This past summer, thanks to hurricane Irene, some of the towns were devastatingly flooded. Lives destroyed thanks to the horrid weather... and the gloomy skies only add insult to injury.

Ahh, Corona is heaven

[tstieber]

Originally Posted by KC6ZLV

I'm not crazy about them either, but for the people who want to pretend they live in the tropics at 38° N of the equator, I guess that list will have to do.

I don't think that growing plants outside of their native habitat means people are pretending anything. Taste may be subjective, but climates objectively define what's appropriate and inappropriate to grow in any region; if something grows easily, then nobody's pretending anything. Otherwise, you could say that about any nonnative plant, like coast redwoods growing in hot inland areas, or low-chill apples growing along the coast, or commercial citrus in Stanislaus County, etc. Besides, none of the palms that grow in California are from tropical climates anyway; they mostly come from coastal deserts or central American mountains. In fact, some of them come from climates very similar to California (like the Chilean Wine Palm, which loves it here, especially in Northern California). Definitely not from a tropical climate either.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by tstieber

I don't think that growing plants outside of their native habitat means people are pretending anything. Taste may be subjective, but climates objectively define what's appropriate and inappropriate to grow in any region; if something grows easily, then nobody's pretending anything. Otherwise, you could say that about any nonnative plant, like coast redwoods growing in hot inland areas, or low-chill apples growing along the coast, or commercial citrus in Stanislaus County, etc. Besides, none of the palms that grow in California are from tropical climates anyway; they mostly come from coastal deserts or central American mountains. In fact, some of them come from climates very similar to California (like the Chilean Wine Palm, which loves it here, especially in Northern California). Definitely not from a tropical climate either.

The other plants you mentioned cannot be compared the same way. The Redwoods that are grown outside of the coastal areas are a cultivated variety, not the true wild Redwoods which actually cannot tolerate high temperatures over an extended period. The other plants you mentioned often served a particular purpose or usefulness. Palms were planted specifically to give that "tropical" look to Ca. A snowbird from the midwest isn't going to know (nor care) where the palms are from. What they do know is that they don't have them in the midwest and places like Florida and Hawaii also have them. This is in part why they are concentrated around touristy areas as mentioned before.

[KC6ZLV]

There are plenty of seedling-grown redwoods grown away from the coast which do just fine in high temperatures. I know of one in a vacant lot in Downtown Sacramento which is about 60 ft from the nearest irrigation. It does just fine. However, it does get a touch of frostbite every five years or so.

Redwoods grow in quite a variety of micro-climates and have a wide variety of tolerances. There are some growing on the east-facing slopes of the Santa Lucia Range in areas which are quite warm and only receive about 25 inches of rain a year. North of San Francisco there are stands which rarely see 90 degrees, receive 40" of rain, or more, a year. And again, there are a few around Clear Lake where it is hot and dry.

The cultivars are real redwoods. Cultivars are popular for their characteristics. Soquel and Aptos Blue are the two most popular redwood cultivars you will come across. Soquel is kind of compact, Aptos Blue less so. They have distinct forms most people see as visually superior to seed-grown trees. Both of those cultivars are also tolerant of the hot and cold temperatures away from the coast. They tolerate the heat in Bakersfield and the freezing temperatures in South Lake Tahoe. There are other cultivars that do well in hot areas. Simpson's Silver, for example, but it doesn't tolerate temperatures below the lower 20s.

[KC6ZLV]

Originally Posted by tstieber

I don't think that growing plants outside of their native habitat means people are pretending anything.

Tell that to the people here in Sacramento who insist we have a tropical climate because they see palm trees growing in town. They will not accept the explanation that some varieties of palm trees are naturally found in temperate climates, just as you can find species of pines native to tropical climates.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by KC6ZLV

Tell that to the people here in Sacramento who insist we have a tropical climate because they see palm trees growing in town. They will not accept the explanation that some varieties of palm trees are naturally found in temperate climates, just as you can find species of pines native to tropical climates.

like one to four and most of those are in tropical latitudes not necessarily in a tropical climate. Pines, like most conifers tend to avoid tropical areas:

In natural distribution, it appears that the genus Pinus has been unable to cross the equator and the belt of tropical and equatorial forests astride it. This seems to have offered, as it were, a sufficient obstacle to the spread of pines into the southern hemisphere with the exception of a single species, namely P. merkusii. P. merkusii; occurs in India, Burma, Thailand, Cambodia, Viet-Nam, the Philippine islands in the northern hemisphere and, below the equator, in Sumatra, Java, Borneo in the Indonesian islands. But in neither Australia nor New Zealand is the genus Pinus represented.

Unasylva - Vol. 12, No. 3 - Pines for tropical areas

[Sealtite]

Originally Posted by KC6ZLV

Tell that to the people here in Sacramento who insist we have a tropical climate because they see palm trees growing in town. They will not accept the explanation that some varieties of palm trees are naturally found in temperate climates, just as you can find species of pines native to tropical climates.

There's only one palm tree that's native to California. It's called "Washingtonia Filifera". They're the ones with the dead fronds hanging off the bottoms of them. The super-tall ones that line the streets in areas near the coast are a close relative that were imported from Mexico. Up in Sacramento, I don't think there are any species of palm trees that are indigenous to that particular region. Anyone who truly believes that is very foolish. Palm trees do not denote a tropical climate either. Certain types of palms can actually grow in relatively cold climates that receive snow in the winter.

This might not make sense to someone who's never been to the east coast, but California handles it's palm trees a lot better than the coastal southeastern regions of the country. For example, I can't stand how they go all-out with Palmetto trees in South Carolina. Palmetto groves in that state are rare to begin with, so I always though it was dumb that they were the state tree. Furthermore, the way they're planted everywhere on the coast is just plain gaudy. Like in Myrtle Beach and Wilmington, NC.....They look sickly due to the freezing temperatures in the winter months. Some of them get all ratty and lose their fronds completely, which makes them look like oversized Tiki torches sticking up out of the ground. Total landscaping fail. Lame.

[KC6ZLV]

Originally Posted by Sealtite

There's only one palm tree that's native to California. It's called "Washingtonia Filifera". They're the ones with the dead fronds hanging off the bottoms of them. The super-tall ones that line the streets in areas near the coast are a close relative that were imported from Mexico. Up in Sacramento, I don't think there are any species of palm trees that are indigenous to that particular region. Anyone who truly believes that is very foolish. Palm trees do not denote a tropical climate either. Certain types of palms can actually grow in relatively cold climates that receive snow in the winter.

This might not make sense to someone who's never been to the east coast, but California handles it's palm trees a lot better than the coastal southeastern regions of the country. For example, I can't stand how they go all-out with Palmetto trees in South Carolina. Palmetto groves in that state are rare to begin with, so I always though it was dumb that they were the state tree. Furthermore, the way they're planted everywhere on the coast is just plain gaudy. Like in Myrtle Beach and Wilmington, NC.....They look sickly due to the freezing temperatures in the winter months. Some of them get all ratty and lose their fronds completely, which makes them look like oversized Tiki torches sticking up out of the ground. Total landscaping fail. Lame.

I'm quite familiar with the distribution of palms. The palms you see in California are those that are available in the horticultural trade and don't represent their true distribution worldwide. Most of the palms available here are from areas with steppe or Mediterranean climates. These regions have areas with freezing temperatures, thus the cold tolerance. Coconut palms, King palms, and many others will not survive in California, but do fine in the southeast. You can grow several of the tropical palms in areas of Southern California. However, in the northern part of the state we are limited to those of Mediterranean origin. Both species of Washintonia do fine here. Chamaerops feel at-home here. I've seen them in Oregon and Washington. Date palms love it here. There are other palms that do well here, but the ones I mentioned probably account for 99% of the palms you are likely to see driving through town. People attempt to grow Queen palms here. Some have good luck. Most of them die from lack of humidity in the summer or the inability for them to synthesize with the cool winter temperatures and the not so bright sunlight at this latitude in Winter.

[Sealtite]

I haven't seen any Palmettos here at all. Why not? By all accounts they should be able to manage just fine in this climate. Y'all should see about gettin' some of them thar'. Make the folks from Cackalacka feel right at home.

[KC6ZLV]

Where is here?

There are many more factors than temperature which determine what will grow where. For example, a plant native to coastal areas of Texas would likely tolerate the level of freezing temperatures, but they may have a problem with root rot in prolonged cold and wet soil, or require a high rate of photosynthesis. Most of the pines we have in California require dormancy (winter chill) to set fruit. Most require stratification to get their seeds to germinate. Several don't require stratification (Bishop and Monterrey pines). Monterrey pines will tolerate the heat and cold away from the coast but are susceptible to several root rots if they are irrigated in areas with warm temperatures.