California High Speed Rail: Final Cost Could Top $200 BILLION (San Francisco: house, buying)

[ZhugeLiang]

Yeah, HSR needs to die. Any rail projects need to be strictly regional as they're more practical and even those are still money pits.

Statewide HSR would be economic suicide right now.

[esmith143]

Originally Posted by ZhugeLiang

So anyone who disagrees with your world view doesn't raise any valid points?

I'm all in favor of conservatives raising valid points if they can somehow make HSR built for 30B rather than 50B. If we can relax environmental laws or eminent domain laws to make things easier, so much the better. (The eminent domain part - the cost of acquiring land where the railway will run - accounts for at least a quarter of the budget in Central Valley, supposedly in the middle of nowhere, and it may dominate the budget in LA and the Bay Area).

I am opposed to people coming up with excuses to kill HSR, if they do that because they have a hidden agenda, or if they are opposed to the concept of HSR regardless of the cost (such as one outspoken anti-HSR group that is led by a bunch of private citizens from Palo Alto whose houses happen to be near the proposed line).

[CarawayDJ]

OK, about what percentage of projects of this nature ever get done for the original estimates?

[hoffdano]

Originally Posted by CarawayDJ

OK, about what percentage of projects of this nature ever get done for the original estimates?

I bet zero. Regardless of location.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Its final cost is estimated between 50-60 Billion , not 200 Billion....thats a flat out lie....Maybe in 2050$ , but not now.....our HSL is only supposed to cost 120 Billion $$ and is bigger and more complex then yours....so there's no way yours would cost 200 Billion....

[TimC2462]

Originally Posted by esmith143

I'm all in favor of conservatives raising valid points if they can somehow make HSR built for 30B rather than 50B. If we can relax environmental laws or eminent domain laws to make things easier, so much the better. (The eminent domain part - the cost of acquiring land where the railway will run - accounts for at least a quarter of the budget in Central Valley, supposedly in the middle of nowhere, and it may dominate the budget in LA and the Bay Area).

I am opposed to people coming up with excuses to kill HSR, if they do that because they have a hidden agenda, or if they are opposed to the concept of HSR regardless of the cost (such as one outspoken anti-HSR group that is led by a bunch of private citizens from Palo Alto whose houses happen to be near the proposed line).

It isn't a political issue for me. I'm fairly moderate on political issues, but what is alarming about the HSR project is that it is becoming severely mismanaged, while raising a lot of unanswered questions about its actions of late. First, they spent millions of dollars to conduct a study on where the first segment be created and they chose the middle of nowhere. Then somehow the cost of constructing the HSR skyrocketed more than the original estimate. Now recently, Antelope Valley residents are actually suing HSR diverting away from its original plans to have HSR come through the Grapevine when the was declared unfeasible in the first place.

In theory, I agree with having HSR implemented to face the rising cost of oil used for transportation, but I have a lot of problem trusting the HSR board that seems to be already corrupt with greed.

[ZhugeLiang]

Originally Posted by esmith143

If we can relax environmental laws or eminent domain laws to make things easier, so much the better. (The eminent domain part - the cost of acquiring land where the railway will run - accounts for at least a quarter of the budget in Central Valley, supposedly in the middle of nowhere, and it may dominate the budget in LA and the Bay Area).

I am opposed to people coming up with excuses to kill HSR, if they do that because they have a hidden agenda, or if they are opposed to the concept of HSR regardless of the cost (such as one outspoken anti-HSR group that is led by a bunch of private citizens from Palo Alto whose houses happen to be near the proposed line).

There is no hidden agenda.

And "relaxing" environmental regulations and eminent domain isn't so simple. In other countries, they don't need to grapple with these matters. In America, we do. It sounds so nice until it's your property being confiscated. So what if people who live near a proposed line oppose it? That isn't a NIMBY complex, that's a legitimate concern in terms of how it affects a community's quality of life, property values, etc.

It sounds like you're trying to invalidate any and all genuine concerns of the taxpayers by claiming that it's all a part of a right-wing agenda. Just listen to yourself "I'm ok with conservatives......" This isn't a political issue in the slightest.The only person bringing politics into this is you. HSR is always a wonderful idea on paper until the first shovel hits the ground and the lawsuits and cost overruns kick in. In the end, the taxpayer is always screwed.

[ZhugeLiang]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

Its final cost is estimated between 50-60 Billion , not 200 Billion....thats a flat out lie....Maybe in 2050$ , but not now.....our HSL is only supposed to cost 120 Billion $$ and is bigger and more complex then yours....so there's no way yours would cost 200 Billion....

ITT, Nexis4Jersey is an engineer with a magic 8-ball.

[Nexis4Jersey]

Originally Posted by ZhugeLiang

ITT, Nexis4Jersey is an engineer with a magic 8-ball.

Well i don't beleave the facts presented here , the anti-Rail people always blow up costs with projects. A Few projects around here only costed 90 Million , but the Anti-Rail people said it would cost a billion.... You can't lie like that or play people's fears , its immature and part of the reason why this country is stuck in the 20 century. Big projects or ideas are laughed at or shunned....and this isn't just limited to Transportation...

[BMW3series]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

Well i don't beleave the facts presented here , the anti-Rail people always blow up costs with projects. A Few projects around here only costed 90 Million , but the Anti-Rail people said it would cost a billion.... You can't lie like that or play people's fears , its immature and part of the reason why this country is stuck in the 20 century. Big projects or ideas are laughed at or shunned....and this isn't just limited to Transportation...

Looking at similar projects around the world, $40-60 billion USD sounds about right. Definitely not $200 billion lol.