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Old 08-13-2011, 03:04 PM
 
Location: San Diego, California Republic
16,588 posts, read 27,390,347 times
Reputation: 9059

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don9 View Post
So lets get agreement on the common ground. Fill free (anyone) to add, change or object to what I started.
  • California is in a fiscal crisis
  • California government is not taking action to deal with the fiscal crisis
  • The people and more specifically the voters of California are not being told the truth on the real state, the severity, of our states budget problems
  • If we continue status quo, we will see worsening conditions
  • Civil unrest in California is likely due to the fiscal/economic crisis
Point one I mostly agree on. Not sure if crisis is quite where we are yet but certainly serious trouble.

Point 2, agree

Point 3 is most likely correct. I'll admit that me not using the word crisis could be a result of this.

point 4 agree.

point 5 as I said I agree.

Now we've found common ground. One liberal and one conservative. Anyone, regardless their political leanings can do what we're doing now.
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Old 08-13-2011, 08:40 PM
 
7,150 posts, read 10,898,467 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Donnyboy ... I do NOT want the status quo! Anyone reading my posts knows that I believe that pygmies, and only pygmies, have the best answer to the ills of the world.

And I am not a bit concerned with discrediting the messenger in this case ... the messenger is doing a slam bang-up job of discrediting himself with every post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don9 View Post
You post speaks volumes ...
Donny, you think I jest? Consider, dude:
the Mbuti pygmies, for example, leave no trace in their manner of living ... they have no recorded written language history with which to pass down counter-productive dogmatic fiction and rituals ... yet they have complex polyphonic music, mostly vocal, of many assignations: work, play, celebrations (as a lowly engineer, Don, this may mean nothing to you -- but one of my advanced degrees is in music and pygmy polyphonic music is a marvel ... especially since there is no written history to preserve it ... an innate gift of the gods, apparently)

... and most significantly, they naturally subscribe to the highest natural truth of the Dunbar Number (Dunbar's number - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), living in bands of usually less than 60 persons. With this sensibility their social/political structure makes California look positively barbaric: Bambuti / Mbuti societies have no ruling group or lineage, no overlying political organization, and little social structure. They are an egalitarian society in which the band is the highest form of social organization. Leadership may be displayed for example on hunting treks. Men and women basically have equal power. (Ha! Take that Michelle Bachmann!) Issues are discussed and decisions are made by consensus at fire camps; men and women engage in the conversations equivalently. If there is a disagreement, misdemeanor, or offense, then the offender may be banished, beaten or scorned.

You can't beat that with a stick.
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Old 08-13-2011, 09:22 PM
 
5,113 posts, read 5,972,261 times
Reputation: 1748
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Donny, you think I jest? Consider, dude:
the Mbuti pygmies, for example, leave no trace in their manner of living ... they have no recorded written language history with which to pass down counter-productive dogmatic fiction and rituals ... yet they have complex polyphonic music, mostly vocal, of many assignations: work, play, celebrations (as a lowly engineer, Don, this may mean nothing to you -- but one of my advanced degrees is in music and pygmy polyphonic music is a marvel ... especially since there is no written history to preserve it ... an innate gift of the gods, apparently)

... and most significantly, they naturally subscribe to the highest natural truth of the Dunbar Number (Dunbar's number - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), living in bands of usually less than 60 persons. With this sensibility their social/political structure makes California look positively barbaric: Bambuti / Mbuti societies have no ruling group or lineage, no overlying political organization, and little social structure. They are an egalitarian society in which the band is the highest form of social organization. Leadership may be displayed for example on hunting treks. Men and women basically have equal power. (Ha! Take that Michelle Bachmann!) Issues are discussed and decisions are made by consensus at fire camps; men and women engage in the conversations equivalently. If there is a disagreement, misdemeanor, or offense, then the offender may be banished, beaten or scorned.

You can't beat that with a stick.
Well good for pygmies ...
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Old 08-13-2011, 09:31 PM
 
2,093 posts, read 4,698,293 times
Reputation: 1121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don9 View Post
This thread is not about a plan from a career politician. This thread is soliciting ideas from the good people on City-Data ...
And those ideas of yours, which I've quoted, was very similar to the economic plan from a politician.

By the way, the thread title of yours is about California being bankrupt, which doesn't address anything about the economic plan until you brought it up.
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Old 08-13-2011, 09:40 PM
 
5,113 posts, read 5,972,261 times
Reputation: 1748
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimC2462 View Post
And those ideas of yours, which I've quoted, was very similar to the economic plan from a politician.

By the way, the thread title of yours is about California being bankrupt, which doesn't address anything about the economic plan until you brought it up.
California being bankrupt and discussing California's economic crisis, the causes, the possible solutions ... is all related.

State you ideas on how to fix it?
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Old 08-13-2011, 09:46 PM
 
1,457 posts, read 2,028,065 times
Reputation: 1407
Privatize so real people are accountable.

....too much spending on nanny crap, you get what you vote for..calif is sunk...good luck though
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Old 08-13-2011, 09:51 PM
 
2,093 posts, read 4,698,293 times
Reputation: 1121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don9 View Post
California being bankrupt and discussing California's economic crisis, the causes, the possible solutions ... is all related.

State you ideas on how to fix it?

My ideas were are on par with the ones you outlined earlier in this thread, except for the boycotting part. I also mentioned that it was also on par with Gavin Newsom's economic plan. At first, I was very skeptical at the plan, but it made sense after reading through it.

The plan is a lot more specific than I would have come up with. The challenge right now is how to execute the plan if the legislature can implement it without politicizing it.

Based on my track record on this forum, I'm sure you know that I have been a critic of the Democratic legislature's spending and their influence on the business climate.
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Old 08-13-2011, 09:58 PM
 
7,150 posts, read 10,898,467 times
Reputation: 3806
The Mbuti have no debt ...
they have no bankruptcy ...
they have no taxes ...
they have no welfare ...
no social democrats, either ...
they waste no money on entitlement programs! ...
no public pensions! ...
no unions! ...
this is what you want Donny ... and yet you refuse to consider them role models for California?

Is it the egalitarianism? Or their dark skin? Or that their women have equal rights and voice?

I am baffled. Here I offer you a path that gives you pretty much everything you have demanded -- and still the deal isn't good enough for you? You get 99.99% and still won't negotiate a good system into place?
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Old 08-13-2011, 10:16 PM
 
5,113 posts, read 5,972,261 times
Reputation: 1748
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimC2462 View Post
My ideas were are on par with the ones you outlined earlier in this thread, except for the boycotting part. I also mentioned that it was also on par with Gavin Newsom's economic plan. At first, I was very skeptical at the plan, but it made sense after reading through it.

The plan is a lot more specific than I would have come up with. The challenge right now is how to execute the plan if the legislature can implement it without politicizing it.

Based on my track record on this forum, I'm sure you know that I have been a critic of the Democratic legislature's spending and their influence on the business climate.
So is the boycotting good or bad?

I no longer have faith in career politicians ... from any party.
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Old 08-13-2011, 10:25 PM
 
2,093 posts, read 4,698,293 times
Reputation: 1121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don9 View Post
So is the boycotting good or bad?

I no longer have faith in career politicians ... from any party.


I try to boycott products not made in USA. I just don't think boycotting is realistic on a state and national level. I've started purchasing organic foods because they are made locally here in the central valley. They cost more, but I am supporting local growers that reside in California.

However, people want products for cheap -- that's the problem.
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