California Green Jobs Math: $57.4 mil = 319 Jobs (loans, house, employment)

[Vascodagama]

This came out before the reported 1,100 job cuts at Solyndra ...

California Green Jobs Math: $57.4 mil = 319 Jobs

Capital Hill is currently researching the current status of the federal green jobs initiatives that President Obama included as part of the federal stimulus bill in 2009. More than $7.2 billion dollars were appropriated for this effort. According to the most recent report on the program Capital Hill could find — June 2011, by the EPA — the effort has created 7,170 jobs total. That’s actually down from the June 2010 total of 16,603. The president, remember, had promised a half million green jobs.

[esmith143]

As always, what we see is a case of conservatives fudging the numbers in order to make the program sound much worse than it is.

The only thing reported by the federal agencies is the number of jobs created among direct recipients of the funds - a small part of all jobs created.

Here's a simple explanation.

Suppose that the initiative awards $10 million to a Pleasantville School District in order to install solar panels on the roofs of all schools.

This will directly create or retain jobs of 1 manager and 9 construction workers who go around installing these panels. Pleasantville School District reports 10 jobs created. Apparent cost of job creation: $1 million per job.

What's wrong? Obviously, that only a small part of $10 million goes to pay salaries of these workers. Most of it goes to pay for solar panels. Which are, in turn, manufactured by some other company (like aforementioned Solyndra), and create jobs there. But no one really reports jobs created among their suppliers. Which is where most jobs really are.

Ultimately, every dollar disbursed under the scheme has to end up in someone's paycheck or come back to the treasury as taxes. Most of these "someone"s make under $100,000/year. Therefore $7.2 billion had to create at least 72,000 person-years of employment.

And that is not all! When all the people who were employed through federal funding actually get paid, they go out and spend their money on food, clothes, utilities, etc. etc. That creates more jobs in their neighborhoods. No one counts those, either.

And finally, that all assumes that recipients of the funds even report back about jobs that they create on time.

Likewise, when California Department of Education reports creating or retaining 19,000 jobs due to an award of $4.9 billion, that does not mean that it hires teachers and pays them $260,000/year. It means that a lot of the money goes to buy computers from Apple, books from Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing, and school buses from Blue Bird. Jobs are created in excess of 19,000, but they are located elsewhere.

[Vascodagama]

Originally Posted by esmith143

As always, what we see is a case of conservatives fudging the numbers in order to make the program sound much worse than it is.

The only thing reported by the federal agencies is the number of jobs created among direct recipients of the funds - a small part of all jobs created.

Here's a simple explanation.

Suppose that the initiative awards $10 million to a Pleasantville School District in order to install solar panels on the roofs of all schools.

This will directly create or retain jobs of 1 manager and 9 construction workers who go around installing these panels. Pleasantville School District reports 10 jobs created. Apparent cost of job creation: $1 million per job.

What's wrong? Obviously, that only a small part of $10 million goes to pay salaries of these workers. Most of it goes to pay for solar panels. Which are, in turn, manufactured by some other company (like aforementioned Solyndra), and create jobs there. But no one really reports jobs created among their suppliers. Which is where most jobs really are.

Ultimately, every dollar disbursed under the scheme has to end up in someone's paycheck or come back to the treasury as taxes. Most of these "someone"s make under $100,000/year. Therefore $7.2 billion had to create at least 72,000 person-years of employment.

And that is not all! When all the people who were employed through federal funding actually get paid, they go out and spend their money on food, clothes, utilities, etc. etc. That creates more jobs in their neighborhoods. No one counts those, either.

And finally, that all assumes that recipients of the funds even report back about jobs that they create on time.

Likewise, when California Department of Education reports creating or retaining 19,000 jobs due to an award of $4.9 billion, that does not mean that it hires teachers and pays them $260,000/year. It means that a lot of the money goes to buy computers from Apple, books from Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing, and school buses from Blue Bird. Jobs are created in excess of 19,000, but they are located elsewhere.

Obama and his administration has been accused of fudging the numbers to make his green jobs initiatives look more successful than it actually is. He has had to back track on some of the numbers due to many challenges. He has also been accused of targeting these government backed loans and grants (meaning tax payers are on the hook) to people and groups that donated heavily to his campaign (cronyism) as in the case of Solyndra.
There is no doubt that if Obama could have claim job creation he would have ... and then some. The rational and justification behind these government backed loans and grants was all about job creation ... and 500,000 jobs as Obama put it ... and even the administration (EPA) is only claiming 7,000 jobs (heavily inflated) ... so obviously the jobs failed to materialize since they are 493,000 jobs short and the American tax payers are on the hook.

[a34dadsf]

That's government job creation for you!

[jkbatca]

Originally Posted by esmith143

As always, what we see is a case of conservatives fudging the numbers in order to make the program sound much worse than it is.

The only thing reported by the federal agencies is the number of jobs created among direct recipients of the funds - a small part of all jobs created.

Here's a simple explanation.

Suppose that the initiative awards $10 million to a Pleasantville School District in order to install solar panels on the roofs of all schools.

This will directly create or retain jobs of 1 manager and 9 construction workers who go around installing these panels. Pleasantville School District reports 10 jobs created. Apparent cost of job creation: $1 million per job.

What's wrong? Obviously, that only a small part of $10 million goes to pay salaries of these workers. Most of it goes to pay for solar panels. Which are, in turn, manufactured by some other company (like aforementioned Solyndra), and create jobs there. But no one really reports jobs created among their suppliers. Which is where most jobs really are.

Ultimately, every dollar disbursed under the scheme has to end up in someone's paycheck or come back to the treasury as taxes. Most of these "someone"s make under $100,000/year. Therefore $7.2 billion had to create at least 72,000 person-years of employment.

And that is not all! When all the people who were employed through federal funding actually get paid, they go out and spend their money on food, clothes, utilities, etc. etc. That creates more jobs in their neighborhoods. No one counts those, either.

And finally, that all assumes that recipients of the funds even report back about jobs that they create on time.

Likewise, when California Department of Education reports creating or retaining 19,000 jobs due to an award of $4.9 billion, that does not mean that it hires teachers and pays them $260,000/year. It means that a lot of the money goes to buy computers from Apple, books from Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing, and school buses from Blue Bird. Jobs are created in excess of 19,000, but they are located elsewhere.

The problem with all this government creating demand is:

a) The demand creation does not control who is doing the supplying. I'll bet most of the money which is to buy the solar panels are being bought from China. Now all you have left to show for are the relatively small group of installers which install solar panels. How does this help CA?

b) Shoving money at government agencies, such as schools, only redistributes CA money to create demand. It does not bring in money from outside the state, which manufacturing usually does. Therefore, all this artificial consumption does is guarantee that money will slowly trickle out of the state (by purchasing items which are produced out of state), not bring money into the state.

If a business would have originally kept the money in the first place, maybe that company could have bought equipment to make things which people OUT of this state would purchase, thus bringing revenue INTO the state. Of course it does not guarantee it, but what in life has guarantees?

[TimC2462]

Government can create a national policy to boost economy, but the one thing they will never be good at is job creation.

[Vascodagama]

Originally Posted by TimC2462

Government can create a national policy to boost economy, but the one thing they will never be good at is job creation.

Governments have increased employment in the past by creating a business friendly environment which results in business growth ...

[a34dadsf]

Originally Posted by Don9

Governments have increased employment in the past by creating a business friendly environment which results in business growth ...

I think he is talking about job creation in terms of subsidies to business to create jobs.

[BayAreaHillbilly]

Back when there was a critical mass of wafer processing still located in CA and still even the odd quick turn packaging house there could have been a solar play here. But that's all long gone. Within the US places like VA, NM and AZ could pull it off since they still have fabs there.

[hoffdano]

Have you guys ever looked the pitch about new football stadiums? It doesn't matter whose or where it is. Hit taxpayers for $500M and it will produce an economic boon for everyone!

No "job creation" numbers should be trusted. Ever.