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Old 09-16-2011, 07:30 PM
 
Location: San Diego
34,801 posts, read 31,852,583 times
Reputation: 19270

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Yes, it is an essential quibbling point ... and an often pretty silly one, I agree ... which is why I drew this example ... I react to people's arrogance ... and this is why I brought up the example of the way illegals are vilified when other 'legal illegals' get away with what they do on a daily basis ... it's selective nonsense ... a thread here starts around the issue of unlicensed drivers getting "a free pass" ... the thread was really started as another way to bash illegal immigrants ... and sure enough, though there is a actual issue aside from illegals here, focus goes for the throat of the illegals -- and tacitly, illegal Mexicans ... stories are inserted without proof, etc. People want to do that, I will take the opportunity to push back and demonstrate the disingenuousness and bigotry in play.

The world is full of injustice. Illegals driving without licenses is pretty darn low on the list compared to high financial crime. I accept high financial crime as a reality ... in fact it is part, a big part, of how the world goes round and always has. It is devastating but a fact of life. Illegals driving without licenses is a fact of life, as well -- and hardly devastating to society.
I guess it depends on your own life story. I've had my condo and house cleaned out by verified illegals. I've got a very good friend who was in a really bad accident with an illegal and had no recourse financially.

Of course I've had my car broken into by some tweekers too so I don't give anyone a free pass mentally. I categorize law breakers as law breakers even though there are civil and criminal crimes, they are all breaking the law. Drinking and driving is pretty harmless too until you take out someone innocent. You have to always consider the victim. Fleeing your Country to better serve your own self interests or will doesn't fall under victimhood. The victim in this topic is the tax payers.
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Old 09-16-2011, 08:16 PM
 
7,150 posts, read 8,756,540 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
I guess it depends on your own life story. I've had my condo and house cleaned out by verified illegals. I've got a very good friend who was in a really bad accident with an illegal and had no recourse financially.

Of course I've had my car broken into by some tweekers too so I don't give anyone a free pass mentally. I categorize law breakers as law breakers even though there are civil and criminal crimes, they are all breaking the law. Drinking and driving is pretty harmless too until you take out someone innocent. You have to always consider the victim. Fleeing your Country to better serve your own self interests or will doesn't fall under victimhood. The victim in this topic is the tax payers.
See the difference between statements? Your story is true -- verified, as you say ... an anecdotal account does not prove a trend or conspiracy, but it is fair to relate. And then you go on to acknowledge that legal 'tweakers' have the same bad habits ... fair again, and correctly noted.

I also agree it is reasonable to "consider the victim" ... although here there are various angles to ponder ... you say "Fleeing your Country to better serve your own self interests or will doesn't fall under victimhood. The victim in this topic is the tax payers" ... and my response is the illegals are victims in their own country -- which, while not giving them any rights, per se, to cross the border -- does accurately portray their "rock and hard place" situation ... I also do not agree that American taxpayers are the victims of illegal immigration any more than they benefit from the work the illegals do, most of which Americans will not ... we all benefit from illegals as it is ... I DO agree, however, that the current dynamic is poorly structured and we would ALL -- Americans and illegals both -- benefit from an intelligently designed and executed guest worker program and a more efficient legal immigration process.

And finally I would throw out there for you to ponder that victims of foreign oppressive circumstances fleeing to America is how this country came into being. Concern yourselves if you will with how inequitably the current state of the game is played today -- but consider the human responsibility to serve one's family, as well. I believe it transcends nationalism. This does not mean I advocate open borders. It simply means I advocate for thinking all sides of the issues and not condemning people for being human. Birthright is a weak claim to entitlement, Imho.
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Old 09-16-2011, 09:52 PM
 
2,311 posts, read 2,877,016 times
Reputation: 1217
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Oh, I do indeed include them!

Sigmund Sigmund ... I had a family starting when I was still a teenager in the military ... I bought my first home when I was 21 ... I worked full time in printing and carpentry trades while I went to five years of university and earned my BA and Masters (I tested out of over 2 years credits in 5 hours to save a couple years) ... all this while owning and maintaining the home and being a husband and father ... I know all about how much work it takes and how much gets done in a day ... at the age you have placed yourself as being in previous posts, you have not worked five years between high school and college ... meaning you worked part time on the side, didn't have a home to take care of, and aren't married and have no kids ... and most importantly: 5 years doesn't hardly scratch the surface ...

You, yourself, have bracketed your age at somewhere between 26 and 28 in previous posts ... unless you were lying

Early adulthood? You're still IN your early adulthood! And I never compared you previously to my kids ... you just brought that up recently.

All told, the reason I come at you is because of the way you demean people, individually and collectively ... pet peeve of mine. As I have said before, if you don't like looking in the mirror, think about the way you present yourself. You have a minor in psychology? "Doctor, heal thyself."

Prime example today in another post: you brag about seeking repair to your motorcycle ... you called a shop ... they quoted you $100 an hour ... your response was "I don't even make $100 an hour! so I fixed it myself". Good for you ... but the tacit, between the lines meaning of your statement is (without even considering that the $100 figure is a shop, overhead inclusive figure, not what the mechanic himself gets): "the mechanics have a lot of nerve asking for more money an hour than me, the computer / financial wizard" or whatever you are ... because you are so much smarter and more worthy than a grease monkey? You deserve more because you are a more valuable person? I'm sure we'll hear your explanation.
Here's the deal Jr. Sigmund ... Damned if I an educated person who is making something of themself and their education.. damned if I am not and someone makes the racist comment that I am part of a group of people who can only labor. My life is exponentially better frankly not giving a *@#% what people think and the same applies to your oft. wrong perception of me.

I think your background of getting educated, caring for a family, and working hard is admirable. My pet peeve is people who spout off and run their mouths about things they don't understand w/ utter confidence ... It's the reason the world is in the shape it is now .. So, our pet peeve's are crossed and thus we have conflicts..Such is life .

When a mechanic attempts to charge me an amount I don't think is fair for the work, you dam right I am going to compare it to skill level needed and do it myself.. Because unlike some uppity corporate snob which you seem to have hatred for, I have greased my elbows many of times and labor is not foreign to me.. So, I will get out my tools and do it myself. Your interpretation of my thought process is off the mark yet again and almost in complete contrast with the reality. I do all the work on my vehicles because labor is not beneath me.. I do investing/trading myself because it doesn't take much to take some time out of your life to learn and do it yourself vs. trusting the people you remark as greedy thieves to do it ... ]

So, listen to the explanation and please allow your judgement of me to cease.. I've done labor. I come from a family of nothing.. I am taught nothing is beyond my grasp .. I enjoy learning new things and applying new skills.. I try to share my knowledge when I can. I don't like people who share wrong advice .. Namely because I have spent a good deal of my life having to correct and fix decisions i have made based on it .. So, I do enjoy conversations that vet out the truth .. and when someone is being stubbornly and confidently wrong .. you bet I am going to call them an idiot .. I would expect no less from someone who is conversing w/ me.. My friends have on many occasions .. and when it fits the bill it fits the bill.. I come to realize later that I am wrong and i go to them and thank them for cutting the conversation and calling me an idiot ...

No one in life is in any position to condescend another .. By calling someone an idiot or ignorant on a topic who is forcefully injected wrong information w/o acknowledging they are wrong.. is not being condescending. After thoughtful discourse that goes no where it is a way of ending a conversation ....

Now, I don't expect you to believe an ounce of what I am saying and I frankly don't care. Some people judge you and they in no way shape or form will ever change their minds.. I know this .. and am quite o.k w/ it. I think you're a nice person actually you are just harboring a lot of misdirected dislike for things/people you don't fully understand .. I point that out when I can.

Cheers bro

Last edited by yeahthatguy; 09-16-2011 at 10:06 PM..
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Old 09-16-2011, 09:58 PM
 
2,311 posts, read 2,877,016 times
Reputation: 1217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovehound View Post
Well really, isn't that the essential quibbling point between all professions? If you're sick, then maybe you need a doctor. On the other hand if you want to heat your house, maybe you need a wood chopper. Who's to say which occupation is worth more?
For me, it's simply that the work according to the mechanic would take 7-8 hours .. @ $100/hr .. If I know, w/ some research and putting some elbow in grease, that I can do it in 1/2 that time .. WTF am I going to pay you $700-$800 ... I take all such things beyond a quibbling point and would urge others to do the same... Heck if i charge x for a particular service and someone feels f**# that .. I would urge to feel the same and take matters into their own hands and do it for themselves...

Plumbing work
Electrical work
Vehicle repairs/maintenance ...

If i don't like how much you charge me for a particular service and relate it to the amount of skill required to do it .. you dam right I am going to compare it to my occupation and say .. f that.. i'll do it myself.. I don't see what's wrong w/ that statement .. I work x hours to make k dollars at a certain level .. after taxes that gets cut in half.. I have free time to do y .. wth, do I look like paying you over what I make to do something that requires skills that I can get from watching a 10 min. tutorial online? I'd be stupid to do so.

I don't see what this has to do w/ judging someone or feeling like I am above someone.. It has more to do w/ $$$ and time. FFS, replace bob the mechanic w/ sally the robot if it helps remove the human judgement factor... the same logic applies.
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Old 09-16-2011, 10:03 PM
 
306 posts, read 512,078 times
Reputation: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don9 View Post
Why would the California politicians stop at allowing illegals into this country when no one is stopping them. They are allowing illegals to take the jobs of American's and no one is stopping them. They are allowing illegals free welfare, shelter and medical and no one is stopping them. They are allowing illegals to attend public schools and provide Spanish speaking teachers and no one is stopping them. They are now using taxpayer money to pay for college tuition and no one is stopping them. They are allowing illegals to walk when arrested for minor crimes and no one is stopping them.

Why would allowing illegals to drive without a license, registration and insurance be too much to stop them?

Given all this provided by California politicians ... foreign people would be idiots to not come to California ... in droves ...
Become a socialist. All capitalist businesses want maximum profits, its capitalism.
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Old 09-16-2011, 10:04 PM
 
2,311 posts, read 2,877,016 times
Reputation: 1217
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Does anyone think for one minute that food prices would change if there was an amnesty, mass deportation, prison labor, audits for min wage? The illegal businesses (which they are if using illegal labor) will ALWAYS pass the increase on to the consumer. It will never go down no matter what the labor costs. Greedy businesses work that way on any level.
Does anyone think for a minute that the social costs of illegals is not already being excised on everyone through their net negative economic impact and subsequent drain on social services ...?

I would love for food prices to increase to their real value/cost.. Illegals to be deported.. Greedy arse farmers invest in capital equipment .. Americans employed in more highly skilled operation of such equipment.. because right now, the costs of illegals is conveniently ignored by people who make such outlandish statements such as : oh but look at the food that's 5 cents cheaper than it would be w/o their labor...



Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Next, speaking of tiring, illegal is a status and I'm tired of everyone seeing that word and immediately tying it to Mexican or Hispanic even though, indeed, that is the majority. Too many running with that.
I don't recall i ever referenced a race when I made the statement 'illegal' .. I didn't do so for the simple fact that every clown in support of it likes to pull the race card when someone points it out ... There.. w/ no race stigma applied.. magically the same problem is still the same problem and the solutions and enforcement of the law are still the same too...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Last, before the invasion which started about 30 years ago good ol American sweat is what was getting it done. It's too bad so many markets have been devastated by the influx of illegal labor.

I do blame the press as just like this article it's what they want and present it that way. It's unlicensed drivers.
Hey, agreed w/ you here
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Old 09-17-2011, 12:23 AM
 
Location: Santa Ana, CA
298 posts, read 335,198 times
Reputation: 223
It's disturbing how much this state panders to illegals.
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Old 09-17-2011, 08:57 AM
 
7,150 posts, read 8,756,540 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by dank View Post
It's disturbing how much this state panders to illegals.
Ah, the angst! Another lonely intellectual voice cries out from the dark and dangerous wilderness filled with roving packs of 'illegals'! When powerlessness overwhelms, best course of action is: turn on those smaller than you ... an action certain to bring relief to the dignity of the nation and mankind.
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Old 09-17-2011, 09:03 AM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 31,324,032 times
Reputation: 29057
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Ah, the angst! Another lonely intellectual voice cries out from the dark and dangerous wilderness filled with roving packs of 'illegals'! When powerlessness overwhelms, best course of action is: turn on those smaller than you ... an action certain to bring relief to the dignity of the nation and mankind.
HEY! It's not his fault that most of them are short!
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Old 09-17-2011, 09:32 AM
 
7,150 posts, read 8,756,540 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
HEY! It's not his fault that most of them are short!
I am fulfilled that my humor is not entirely wasted all the time ....
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