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Old 10-04-2011, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,460 posts, read 20,026,353 times
Reputation: 4365

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
They'd likely raid it for pork as they've done with the Social Security trust.
Nothing was raided, the "trust" is just an accounting entity.

Anyhow, all retirement systems whether a pension, social security, etc have Ponzi like structures. Whether you put the "money" into stocks, bonds, etc doesn't matter. The biggest problem facing those soon to retiree is the lack of economic opportunity for younger generations, which is directly related to the actions of the older generations over the last 2-3 decades.

Anyhow, oldsters are going to have to get use to a reduced standard of living, there is no avoiding this as the younger generations have already been sucked dry.
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Old 10-04-2011, 02:48 PM
 
28,109 posts, read 63,506,475 times
Reputation: 23230
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Nothing was raided, the "trust" is just an accounting entity.

Anyhow, all retirement systems whether a pension, social security, etc have Ponzi like structures. Whether you put the "money" into stocks, bonds, etc doesn't matter. The biggest problem facing those soon to retiree is the lack of economic opportunity for younger generations, which is directly related to the actions of the older generations over the last 2-3 decades.

Anyhow, oldsters are going to have to get use to a reduced standard of living, there is no avoiding this as the younger generations have already been sucked dry.
May be the case for many... not so for my retired law enforcement and fire fighter friends...

One has a pension at age 51 of 180k per year with lifetime medical... and no, he didn't retire as chief of police... all have near 100k or better.

Most of these guys are in their 50's... could live another 40 years...

Some of the older retired officers have even a better deal... their pension is tied to the earnings of someone with the current position in the Department... so even if you went out as a Sargent 25 years ago... you are getting a heft percent of what a Sargent makes today...

Interviewed one guy and he said he is getting 3x more than his highest year on the force.

Don't get me started on pension spiking...
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Old 10-04-2011, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,460 posts, read 20,026,353 times
Reputation: 4365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
One has a pension at age 51 of 180k per year with lifetime medical... and no, he didn't retire as chief of police... all have near 100k or better.

Most of these guys are in their 50's... could live another 40 years...
Huh? How would that even be possible? Police, firefighters, etc don't receive more in retirement benefits than they did regular salary. Police in California don't make anywhere near $180k a year...

Anyhow, I have relatives that are retired firefighters, etc and though their benefits are a bit plush they are noticeably lower than $100k. For one that retired a few years ago its around $65k/year after close to 40 years of employment.
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Old 10-04-2011, 04:22 PM
 
Location: SW MO
23,593 posts, read 37,380,935 times
Reputation: 29336
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Huh? How would that even be possible? Police, firefighters, etc don't receive more in retirement benefits than they did regular salary. Police in California don't make anywhere near $180k a year...

Anyhow, I have relatives that are retired firefighters, etc and though their benefits are a bit plush they are noticeably lower than $100k. For one that retired a few years ago its around $65k/year after close to 40 years of employment.
With a 3% formula for each year of service and a starting age of 21 or 22, it can mount up. If the employing entity also factors in overtime worked during all those years as a part of the formula the "rewards" can be tremendous.
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Old 10-04-2011, 04:22 PM
 
28,109 posts, read 63,506,475 times
Reputation: 23230
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Huh? How would that even be possible? Police, firefighters, etc don't receive more in retirement benefits than they did regular salary. Police in California don't make anywhere near $180k a year...

Anyhow, I have relatives that are retired firefighters, etc and though their benefits are a bit plush they are noticeably lower than $100k. For one that retired a few years ago its around $65k/year after close to 40 years of employment.
They must not have worked in the SF Bay Area?

Incrediable as it may seem... it is 100% true and I even understated the numbers for my city...

Here you go...

"Kozicki's pension will be close to his budgeted salary of $187,351 because he will receive premiums for having a bachelor's degree and a Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training certificate."

Commanding officer at scene of two Oakland police deaths to retire - Inside Bay Area




"Oakland awarded the union its generous benefits, which include the ability to retire at age fifty with nearly full pay for life, at a time of relative prosperity. The council figured that over-the-top pension benefits would help the city attract and retain quality officers when unemployment was low and the competition for cops was fierce. But in a time of record joblessness, it's clear that Cadillac pensions are not only unnecessary, they're foolish."

http://www.eastbayexpress.com/ebx/th...nt?oid=1792232




"Tuesday’s committee meeting had several agenda items, including parking meters, city housing bonds and budget reports, but the Police and Fire Retirement System was the most discussed. Created in 1951, this retirement system’s benefits are pegged to current salaries for the police officers and firefighters—this means that someone who retired in the 1970s would get the same pension pay as someone who retired last year.The system was closed to new members in 1976, but the city still has to pay $70 million per year to its retired membership of 1,125 people."


http://oaklandnorth.net/2011/02/23/c...still-unclear/

http://www.insidebayarea.com/columns/ci_15987580

Last edited by Ultrarunner; 10-04-2011 at 06:11 PM..
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Old 10-04-2011, 04:38 PM
 
28,109 posts, read 63,506,475 times
Reputation: 23230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
With a 3% formula for each year of service and a starting age of 21 or 22, it can mount up. If the employing entity also factors in overtime worked during all those years as a part of the formula the "rewards" can be tremendous.
The only reason I'm up tp speed is from going to council meetings and seeing a lot of the guys I went to school with now fully retired...

There have been many stories about pension spiking... nothing illegal, just using every legit means to boost retirement income...

Lots of acquaintances in the Law Enforcement... my uncle died in the line of duty back in the 60's... he was single and engaged to be married at the time... his total death benefit was 10k on a policy that he paid for through the department...

Much different today... you know your family will be taken care of if the worst happens... free university tuition and survivor benefits...
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Old 10-04-2011, 06:38 PM
 
12,823 posts, read 24,331,767 times
Reputation: 11039
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeauCharles View Post
I have my house paid for and a 401(K) with a 100% company match for the first 3% and 50% for the next 2% (fully vested). Retirement is still several decades off, but its not all gloom and doom for everyone. I'm one of those weird Gen Xers who lives as frugally as my WWII era parents did.
Your folks must have had kids late in life. I'm one of the Xers who lives frugally, somewhat unlike my Silent/Boomer borderline folks (but like my Lost Generation Grandparents did). While they are not quite of the "we are spending our children's' inheritance" ilk, they are not making good decisions. It all dawned on me when they decided not to cash out because they couldn't stand to leave the hippy dippy Bay Area for "redneck" climes - you know, places like the Sierra Foothills or Research Triangle, where they are lynching 'em up and stoning the freaks! / sarc
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Old 10-04-2011, 08:08 PM
 
2,093 posts, read 4,683,004 times
Reputation: 1121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
The only reason I'm up tp speed is from going to council meetings and seeing a lot of the guys I went to school with now fully retired...

There have been many stories about pension spiking... nothing illegal, just using every legit means to boost retirement income...

Lots of acquaintances in the Law Enforcement... my uncle died in the line of duty back in the 60's... he was single and engaged to be married at the time... his total death benefit was 10k on a policy that he paid for through the department...

Much different today... you know your family will be taken care of if the worst happens... free university tuition and survivor benefits...
I recall Gov. Jerry Brown addressing a possible reform on pensions to prohibit spiking as part of the deal with the California GOP. I can't remember if that was signed into law.

But certainly, the pension system was abused.
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Old 10-04-2011, 08:11 PM
 
2,093 posts, read 4,683,004 times
Reputation: 1121
The Baby Boomers are the "Me Me Me" generation.
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Old 10-04-2011, 08:42 PM
 
22,622 posts, read 24,466,288 times
Reputation: 20272
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Nothing was raided, the "trust" is just an accounting entity.

Anyhow, all retirement systems whether a pension, social security, etc have Ponzi like structures. Whether you put the "money" into stocks, bonds, etc doesn't matter. The biggest problem facing those soon to retiree is the lack of economic opportunity for younger generations, which is directly related to the actions of the older generations over the last 2-3 decades.

Anyhow, oldsters are going to have to get use to a reduced standard of living, there is no avoiding this as the younger generations have already been sucked dry.

There is no REAL Social Security Trust Fund........at least in the true sense of the word......since there is no tangible assets in ALGORES LOCKBOX.
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