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Old 10-11-2011, 02:25 PM
 
2,311 posts, read 2,882,483 times
Reputation: 1217

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
You never stop do you? You define what is intelligent and worthwhile for the world and humanity based on yeahthatguy's omniscient vision developed and refined over vast years of adult experience ... what remarkable wisdom you offer to lead us all out of the darkness of our collective "mindless idiocy". By all means, let us move on to pursue all the "higher level things" we have been destined for over the tens of thousands of wasted years we have thrown away before you arrived on the scene to define happiness and worth and fulfillment and contribution.

Seriously? Does the question of psychoanalysis / counseling / medication ever cross your fertile, rabid mind?
Oh yeah, the Dream Act ... speaking of freeing up minds ... oh wait, but not those minds ...
You really love to make relative comparisons don't you? In no way did I assert myself into the debate but somehow you make sure to make this about me and my 'omniscient' experiences...

Per your remarks, there is no idiocy in the world.. Cool.. Fine, you're right /sarcasm.. . Good... So now, robots and technology have replaced a great share of mindless labor ... There shouldn't be anyone w/o jobs .. because in your world, everyone is intelligent and should has developed enough aptitude to do the jobs that require more intelligence and skill ...

Some absolute measures for you since you seem to want to think in relative terms :
"44 million adults in the U.S. can't read well enough to read a simple story to a child. "
"It is estimated that the cost of illiteracy to business and the taxpayer is $20 billion per year. "
"Over one million children drop out of school each year, costing the nation over $240 billion in lost earnings, forgone tax revenues, and expenditures for social services. "
"More than 20 percent of adults read at or below a fifth-grade level - far below the level needed to earn a living wage. "
"Approximately 50 percent of the nation's unemployed youth age 16-21 are functional illiterate, with virtually no prospects of obtaining good jobs. "
"To participate fully in society and the workplace in 2020, citizens will need powerful literacy abilities that until now have been achieved by only a small percentage of the population.
"21 million Americans can't read at all, 45 million are marginally illiterate and one-fifth of high school graduates can't read their diplomas. "

 
Old 10-11-2011, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,476 posts, read 17,418,232 times
Reputation: 4316
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy View Post
AI? LOL .. It's called 'computer vision' and 3d kinematics and it is most nearly there... The compute power has been there...
Umm...no, its called AI. The computer vision and kinematics aspects of it are mostly available, its the AI that is lacking. AI is the primary weakness in today's robotics, not too surprising because its largely a conceptual problem rather than a engineering problem. Robot nerds are apparently not good with such things...

By the way, the strawberry picker was funny, a guy sitting on a machine that is slower than a single person picking strawberries.... Gee, why haven't farmers jumped on it yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy View Post
The 'mechanization' is already there in the majority of farming ..
Except of course that we are talking about the tasks that are currently being done by people and hence...not mechanized. As such, I have no idea why you're posting a video about cow milking. Cows haven't been milked by hand since....well...ask someone old like .high
 
Old 10-11-2011, 02:39 PM
 
7,150 posts, read 8,779,382 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy View Post
You really love to make relative comparisons don't you? In no way did I assert myself into the debate but someone you make sure to make this about me and my 'omniscient' experiences...

Per your remarks, there is no idiocy in the world.. Cool.. Fine, you're right .. no one doesn't stupid things w/ their time.. Good... So now, robots and technology have replaced a great share of mindless labor ... There shouldn't be anyone w/o jobs .. because in your world, everyone is intelligent and should have developed enough aptitude to do the jobs that require more intelligence and skill ...
Kid, you have a very acrobatic, active mind ... you can't be as dense as you consistently appear ... can you? Your very judgmental commentary "asserts" / inserts you into the debate ... this is the very same issue I respond to about your posts over and over ... you spread your worldview like an uncovered sneeze ... stop calling the world "idiotic" and "mindless", etc etc etc etc etc, and I'll have great conversations with you. This "stupid" old world has been turning without your help or definitions for a pretty long time ... countless humans of all intelligence levels have been loving and laughing and finding fulfillment and meaning even in the darkest times ... there's nothing we need to reach for that isn't already here ... I wince at the constant whining and accusations and judgment ... you're no brighter than a bazillion cavemen long before you ... and your life will come to an end before the world ever ascends to your vision just as theirs did.

You want the world to be greater and better and improved and faster and more brilliant and and and and and and ... and you and most everyone else haven't even learned how to control your simplest desires --- but you can't wait for the next flashy distraction.
 
Old 10-11-2011, 02:47 PM
 
7,150 posts, read 8,779,382 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy View Post
...
Some absolute measures for you since you seem to want to think in relative terms :
"44 million adults in the U.S. can't read well enough to read a simple story to a child. "
"It is estimated that the cost of illiteracy to business and the taxpayer is $20 billion per year. "
"Over one million children drop out of school each year, costing the nation over $240 billion in lost earnings, forgone tax revenues, and expenditures for social services. "
"More than 20 percent of adults read at or below a fifth-grade level - far below the level needed to earn a living wage. "
"Approximately 50 percent of the nation's unemployed youth age 16-21 are functional illiterate, with virtually no prospects of obtaining good jobs. "
"To participate fully in society and the workplace in 2020, citizens will need powerful literacy abilities that until now have been achieved by only a small percentage of the population.
"21 million Americans can't read at all, 45 million are marginally illiterate and one-fifth of high school graduates can't read their diplomas. "
So what?! Again, you are setting up a standard based on "cost" and "education" (as pertains to economic potential), "lost earnings", "%", "living wage", "good jobs" ............ you don't see it? Everything in your world is about "getting ahead" economically ... define "getting ahead" ... it means "ahead of others" ... talk about not understanding modeling and scale ... not everyone can get ahead of everyone else ... you know: physics ... not everyone can rise above ... you know: gravity.
You've had this "get ahead" mantra drubbed into you until you are totally brainwashed. The world cannot support everyone being at the top, or even close to the top ... in a gravitational world, pyramids stand on broad bases, not the other way around ... find some respect for the base ... it is has just as much dignity and wisdom as the top.
 
Old 10-11-2011, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,476 posts, read 17,418,232 times
Reputation: 4316
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
define "getting ahead" ... it means "ahead of others" ... talk about not understanding modeling and scale ... not everyone can get ahead of everyone else ... you know: physics ... not everyone can rise above ... you know: gravity.
This fallacy seems rather common lately....it seems to pop up in any conservation about the economy.
 
Old 10-11-2011, 03:15 PM
 
2,311 posts, read 2,882,483 times
Reputation: 1217
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Umm...no, its called AI. The computer vision and kinematics aspects of it are mostly available, its the AI that is lacking. AI is the primary weakness in today's robotics, not too surprising because its largely a conceptual problem rather than a engineering problem. Robot nerds are apparently not good with such things...
Care to give me an example besides making your unfounded statements per usual? The fuzzy AI logic you describe is already there ..
Sight/feel/ are what are used by most 'pickers'. Sensing equipment in both areas are better.. The maneuvering of the picking equipment is a matter of 3d kinematics and current robotic capabilities are already there..

Robot nerds .. LOL . this guy ..


Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
By the way, the strawberry picker was funny, a guy sitting on a machine that is slower than a single person picking strawberries.... Gee, why haven't farmers jumped on it yet?
I picked the strawberry picker because picking strawberries was once considered impossible .. and was considered to be one of the most difficult farm tasks to automate.. However, due to advancements, it is now a reality .. You obviously jump right to 'speed' and gloss over the fact that I used this example to draw straw to your nonsense statement about 'AI' ...



Yes, lets gloss over the thousands of successful applications of mechanization/automation to farming .. and focus on the more difficult corner cases like strawberry picking which is currently being addressed and that technology will also automate in the near future.. The example was to show you that the most difficult of farming tasks already has working solutions.. Speed comes as incremental advancement and is the least difficult of tasks to improve on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Except of course that we are talking about the tasks that are currently being done by people and hence...not mechanized.
Mechanized is not automation.. Stop confusing them please
There is a growing trend of reduced need for humans in mindless farm work... just as there is a reduced need for humans in mindless manuf.
Technology/Mechanization helps to reduce the need for human input, increased the skill level needed to operate equipment, and has made the conditions more humane... W/ illegal immigrants all of these things get thrown out the window
That was the overarching point .. and even those already have functionally proven prototypes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
As such, I have no idea why you're posting a video about cow milking. Cows haven't been milked by hand since....well...ask someone old like .high
because yet again, you're going to show your idiocy and make a statement like this .. The process is fully automated.. milking udders needed to be attached by a human not to long ago.. Now w/ advancements in computer vision, the whole process is automated..

And again, the overarching point is that various farm processes can be mechanized and even automated .. many farmers don't do it and when they can hire an illegal .. work them beyond legal hours .. pay them bellow minimum wage.. give them no benefits .. the economic case for investing in such technology doesn't exist .....

Which gets back to the point of wealthy farmer owners exploiting illegal labor for the enrichment of their profits.. the social cost of illegal labor .. the way it stifles advancements in technology .. and the many other downsides that overshadow Billy Bob being able to have 100s of mexican work for $4/hour in the blistering heat w/ no mechanized support .. working in slave like conditions from decades ago.

Last edited by yeahthatguy; 10-11-2011 at 03:34 PM..
 
Old 10-11-2011, 03:18 PM
 
2,311 posts, read 2,882,483 times
Reputation: 1217
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
So what?! Again, you are setting up a standard based on "cost" and "education" (as pertains to economic potential), "lost earnings", "%", "living wage", "good jobs" ............ you don't see it? Everything in your world is about "getting ahead" economically ... define "getting ahead" ... it means "ahead of others" ... talk about not understanding modeling and scale ... not everyone can get ahead of everyone else ... you know: physics ... not everyone can rise above ... you know: gravity.
You've had this "get ahead" mantra drubbed into you until you are totally brainwashed. The world cannot support everyone being at the top, or even close to the top ... in a gravitational world, pyramids stand on broad bases, not the other way around ... find some respect for the base ... it is has just as much dignity and wisdom as the top.
Technology is and will replace the need for unskilled labor. As it does, you need to have more skills/intelligence to be a productive member of society..

I'm not setting the standard.. the pace of society is...
Illegal immigration hurts that pace. Exploits a group of people to slave like conditions, puts the social cost on tax payers, and enriches the exploitative farmer. It doesn't have a net positive impact for the general population.

That's about all I have to say. You can cling to your personal attacks all you want. I didn't set these standards.. technology is the driver.. you either keep pace or fall behind. Or exploit illegal immigrants so it makes sense to economically stay behind.
 
Old 10-11-2011, 03:24 PM
 
7,150 posts, read 8,779,382 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy View Post
Technology is and will replace the need for unskilled labor. As it does, you need to have more skills/intelligence to be a productive member of society..

I'm not setting the standard.. the pace of society is...
Illegal immigration hurts that pace. Exploits a group of people to slave like conditions, puts the social cost on tax payers, and enriches the exploitative farmer. It doesn't have a net positive impact for the general population.

That's about all I have to say. You can cling to your personal attacks all you want. I didn't set these standards.. technology is the driver.. you either keep pace or fall behind. Or exploit illegal immigrants so it makes sense to economically stay behind.
My comments aren't focused on "the standard" ... or "the pace of society" ... or "technology" ... my comments are about your incessant lack of respect for your fellow man and your persistent representation of your role in revelation. Give the arrogance a rest. You are as replaceable as anyone.
 
Old 10-11-2011, 03:30 PM
 
2,311 posts, read 2,882,483 times
Reputation: 1217
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
My comments aren't focused on "the standard" ... or "the pace of society" ... or "technology" ... my comments are about your incessant lack of respect for your fellow man and your persistent representation of your role in revelation. Give the arrogance a rest. You are as replaceable as anyone.
You are attacking the messenger .. have so in the past .. I respect my fellow man .. even the illegal immigrant .. which is why I don't approve of the exploitation of them by enterprising farmers who don't want to invest in capital equipment or pay a fair humane wage for the labor....

I will point out literacy rates .. I will point out technology and how it replaces jobs .. as it should .. as it allows humans to move on to higher level more humane tasks.. I will point out how many humans don't move on and how it is not a tragedy of technology that they don't ...

I will use the words ignorant.. stupid.. when needed.
I am as replaceable as anyone else.. I am worth no more than anyone else....
I dont want human beings anywhere in the world doing mundane tasks that technology can do .. However, when technology does the mundane and replaces the mundane jobs.. there is an expectation that humans will adapt and move on to something of higher applications. Given that we all have free will, a human being has the free will not to .. and has the free will to engage in idiotic non productive tasks and not adapt.. and I have the free will to point it out .. thank you very much
 
Old 10-11-2011, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,476 posts, read 17,418,232 times
Reputation: 4316
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy View Post
The fuzzy AI logic you describe is already there ..
umm...."fuzzy AI Logic"? Why even try to talk about this? There is a thing known as fuzzy logic, but it doesn't even began to solve general problems in AI.


Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy View Post
Sight/feel/ are what are used by most 'pickers'. Sensing equipment in both areas are better..
Yes, sight, fell, etc are used...thanks for stating the obvious. Of course, the issue is that robotics nerds, due to their linear focus on engineering, can't come close to the sort of processing (and mechanical) efficiency provided by the brain of just about any mammal...

Its not sufficient that robot geeks figure out how to create a machine that pick strawberries, etc....it has to create a machine that can do it far faster that a typical laborer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy View Post
I picked the strawberry picker because picking strawberries was once concerned impossible .. and was considered to be one of the most difficult farm tasks to automate.
Dude c'mon...nobody involved in technology would consider it "impossible" nor would anybody that knows about farming considering it "one of the most difficult".

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy View Post
Yes, lets gloss over the thousands of successful applications of mechanization/automation to farming ..
Yes, lets do that since we are talking about the tasks that aren't automated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy View Post
Mechanized is not automation..
Right, thanks again for stating the obvious. You can achieve mechanization by the automation of some some of the sub-tasks in a particular operation.

Automation can also be used for some task that is "fully automated"...even though that is rarely the case (there is a human operator somewhere down the chain). Oh gee, they can use a robot to attach something to a nipple....what a revolution....in the dairy industry!
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