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Old 10-13-2011, 03:36 PM
 
2,312 posts, read 1,660,996 times
Reputation: 1208

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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Or how about not? How about we keep the oppressive immigration policies in Europe? The Statue of Liberty has this on it:

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door"

Not:

"Give me your highly educated, your rich...."
Everyone has their inspiring slogans... Doesn't mean they actually believe in them, follow them, or that they can be sustained in all cases and over a long term horizon.

It was a slogan for an era long past.. I am sure they didn't envision America being $14 trillion dollars in debt either ... Or having the size of govt. and social services that we do.... Thus, that slogan has a context... One in which the field was such that you come here and earn/work for what you have.. not, that you come here and 'try' .. and the govt. fills in the rest on the way to a middle class life...

Again, if tax payer's money didn't go to support this practice .. No one would give two sh*ts about it.. It goes along w/ that saying : put your money where your mouth is...

Those who support this illegal immigration practice.. the practice that results in 3-4 kids sucking education (the #1 expense in the state's budget dry) .. fine, identify all the illegals and have the supporters of them pay their tab.

 
Old 10-13-2011, 03:39 PM
 
7,151 posts, read 4,437,041 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy View Post
..............
He says he's leaving California -- yet he never does. He says he's leaving this thread -- yet he doesn't.
 
Old 10-13-2011, 03:46 PM
 
2,312 posts, read 1,660,996 times
Reputation: 1208
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Correct ... and yet what do we see people generally do with their money? Correct: mostly junk.
Agreed

Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Well, speaking of "the bigger picture", uh, you missed it completely ... consumption happens: food and a variety of necessities ... Thorstein Veblen was among the first to recognize the need for social balance with regard to consumption and economics ... but as an economic model, consumerism, calling for endless, wasteful, material consumption, is entirely unsustainable ... a Ponzi scheme, literally ... intentionally fraudulent and promoted with no value intent other than amassing personal wealth at any cost ...
Money is a tool/resource. What people do w/ it is their own free choice. I am not going to sit here and suggest restrictions on someone's potential to make good/better amnts of money. If you want to talk about culture in America and how it is centered around junky consumerism.. Fine, lets do that .. but that has nothing to do w/ someone's opportunity to make good money. Again, some enlightened people use money as a means to buy 'time' and 'freedom' to expand their intelligence... engage in the world.. spend more time w/ family/friends... the true things that have value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
"Earnest Elmo Calkins noted to fellow advertising executives in 1932 that "consumer engineering must see to it that we use up the kind of goods we now merely use", while the domestic theorist Christine Frederick observed in 1929 that "the way to break the vicious deadlock of a low standard of living is to spend freely, and even waste creatively".
Yes yes.. Read about these things several times .. At the end of the day, no one is forced. Each human being has free will.. Building up intelligence/knowledge and awareness of the world allows one to better tap into that free will and not be 'engineered' and steered by another.. How many people invest the time to develop these things in their personal life... So, as you like to get pissed off about it.. when I say the harsh truth .. Alot of people are mindless sheep who get steered to their slaughter in life... Welcome to nature of the old world : survival of the fittest.. It just has evolved and is held under a different institution now... You dont have to be as powerful as them.. but you do have to be intelligent/aware.. if you're not .. you're pretty much doomed in life to be a puppet of someone else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
... which cost, ultimately, will destroy culture. As we live it, the religion of growth is a prime definition of cancer ... to which I, once again, quote Edward Abbey: "Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell."

Do humanity a favor: look at the bigger picture, kid.
I look at it every day. I see the good and the bad. I bet on the bad .. the cancer as Edward Abbey would say it as I see the reality that the majority of people are puppets/sheep being led to the slaughter. I have tried to help and still do to inform people... and point out these things.. but get the usual reception .. name calling.. and spit on .. So, I sadly keep it up from time to time.. Get upset and leave them be others.. but as a base rule, I bet on them being the same idiots they are day in and day out.. and I find in my personal life and in my observation of life.. that's not going to change.. So, I look at the big picture.. I bet on it every day.. If I was soo wrong about it, I'd be broke.. But i'm not magically ....

Money is a resource.... deficient people use it in deficient ways.
Just because there are degenerates out there doesn't give you justification to reduce the potential for others utilize the resource in better ways...

and as you can see.. over time, things change on their own (the beauties of capitalism/markets) .. what is not sustainable will not and cannot be sustained :
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/mone...us-stores.html
Gap Inc. is closing stores and downsizing others in the U.S. as it focuses on international expansion, the San Francisco company said Thursday.

*Keeping it harshly real again.

Last edited by yeahthatguy; 10-13-2011 at 03:54 PM..
 
Old 10-13-2011, 03:47 PM
 
2,312 posts, read 1,660,996 times
Reputation: 1208
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
He says he's leaving California -- yet he never does. He says he's leaving this thread -- yet he doesn't.
He says he is leaving in 2012 and will..
He said he is leaving the thread.. yet, because I speak the harsh truth instead of b.s.. I have gotten several Private messages to keep posting on this thread.. and well, I am.
 
Old 10-13-2011, 04:13 PM
 
7,151 posts, read 4,437,041 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy View Post
Agreed
... use money as a means to buy 'time' and 'freedom' to expand their intelligence... engage in the world.. spend more time w/ family/friends...
But they don't ... they just dig deeper holes of slavery for themselves to the system of cancerous growth ... the greater the technology, the greater the freedom: that's the theory -- theory that has been proven entirely false over and over ... we do not find greater freedom of time ... and our wealth has been declining for decades (except the top 1 - 10%)
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy View Post
Yes yes.. Read about these things several times .. At the end of the day, no one is forced. Each human being has free will..
They ARE forced -- by conditioning, brainwashing ... you're an example, yourself ... the facts that we don't have greater freedom are in your face everyday and you still subscribe to the "more is better" path.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy View Post
I see the reality that the majority of people are puppets/sheep being led to the slaughter. I have tried to help and still do to inform people... and point out these things.. but get the usual reception .. name calling.. and spit on ..
What's this? A Messiah complex? You keep returning to this idea that you are somehow contributing to saving the world, and sacrificing by spouting off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy View Post
So, I look at the big picture.. I bet on it every day.. If I was soo wrong about it, I'd be broke.. But i'm not magically ....
Well, again, you associate acquisition of 'money' / 'being broke' with success and failure ... money is wealth to you .. it is your only measure apparently. That's the only "Big Picture" you see.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy View Post
Money is a resource.... deficient people use it in deficient ways.
Just because there are degenerates out there doesn't give you justification to reduce the potential for others utilize the resource in better ways...
Just because there are money-obsessed sociopaths out there doesn't give them justification to force their illusion and false definition of wealth on the world.
 
Old 10-13-2011, 04:19 PM
 
2,312 posts, read 1,660,996 times
Reputation: 1208
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
But they don't ... they just dig deeper holes of slavery for themselves to the system of cancerous growth ... the greater the technology, the greater the freedom: that's the theory -- theory that has been proven entirely false over and over ... we do not find greater freedom of time ... and our wealth has been declining for decades (except the top 1 - 10%) They ARE forced -- by conditioning, brainwashing ... you're an example, yourself ... the facts that we don't have greater freedom are in your face everyday and you still subscribe to the "more is better" path. What's this? A Messiah complex? You keep returning to this idea that you are somehow contributing to saving the world, and sacrificing by spouting off.
Well, again, you associate acquisition of 'money' / 'being broke' with success and failure ... money is wealth to you .. it is your only measure apparently. That's the only "Big Picture" you see.Just because there are money-obsessed sociopaths out there doesn't give them justification to force their illusion and false definition of wealth on the world.
And like I said, the only greater degree of response you get when you point out the harsh realities is being spit on.. As you were, world isn't going to change today nor tomorrow.. No one is forced.. They don't develop their minds and awareness and thus are susceptible to the will of another... You try to inform them of this truth and they spit/call you names... declare you as being condescending and the like...
The cancerous trajectory is pretty much set in place for this reason.. One can make carefully placed bets w/ this knowledge, reclaim wealth/opportunity that is taken from them by this structure.. Reclaim/offset the dumb decisions others make and policies they support ... Not buy into this cancerous consumerism lifestyle and use the resource of money to buy yourself time/freedom to enjoy family/friends/knowledge and the many things in life that come at a cheap/fulfilling cost.

Up to each individual.. your life.. your choice.
Having come from a childhood w/o money.. I know just how less freedom/time you have.. Excuse me from learning an important lesson.


I'm out.. (AGAIN)
 
Old 10-13-2011, 04:33 PM
 
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 3,545,953 times
Reputation: 2622
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
How much of a reduction in your standard of living & quality of living are you willing to accept to make them better in other countries?
You have it backwards, do you think the resentment against the United States that results in terrorism has no cause? Do you think China with its population is going to sit back and watch the US consume 40% of the world's resources. Logic dictates that the balance will be rectified, and Americans are not going to like it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy View Post
As an American I am advocating that the govt. enforce immigration laws and stops letting enterprising farmers take advantage of illegal immigrants to boost their profit margins and throw the social costs on the rest of tax payers... Oh yeah, that's some amazing govt. intervention/socialism if I ever saw it ... And don't talk to me about market prices, you intentional use illegal labor because it is below the market price of what you will have to pay an American ..

Where do you get your facts, a cheerios box? Neither the farmer nor the labor contractor knows who is legal and who isn't, the pay is the same for both. If you were a real patriot you would go to the fields today and take a job from and illegal, if you could figure out which is which. Try a little reality some day.

And there you go again yappin your mouth about me being from highschool ..
I am a long time graduate from Carnegie Mellon University w/ a Masters degree in Electrical and Computer Engineering ..

The building I am standing in front of is the University Center :



Keep making yourself look like a fool
Your reasoning is that of a very bright, very young and naive person. Photoshop is a wonderful thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Ya might as well give it up, YTG. Haven't you figured out yet that American-hating, illegal immigrant-loving liberals have combined social and mental disorders. You'd get further arguing with a brick wall.
I find it curious that the world of facts, is dismissed as;
Quote:
American-hating, illegal immigrant-loving liberals have combined social and mental disorders
[quote=yeahthatguy;21273267]Everyone has their inspiring slogans... Doesn't mean they actually believe in them, follow them, or that they can be sustained in all cases and over a long term horizon.

It was a slogan for an era long past.. I am sure they didn't envision America being $14 trillion dollars in debt either ...

Our debt today is far smaller in terms of GDP than it was at the end of WW2, the debt whiners are forgetting how we paid that down fairly quickly.


Or having the size of govt. and social services that we do.... Thus, that slogan has a context... One in which the field was such that you come here and earn/work for what you have.. not, that you come here and 'try' .. and the govt. fills in the rest on the way to a middle class life...

Again, if tax payer's money didn't go to support this practice .. No one would give two sh*ts about it.. It goes along w/ that saying : put your money where your mouth is...

Those who support this illegal immigration practice.. the practice that results in 3-4 kids sucking education (the #1 expense in the state's budget dry) .. fine, identify all the illegals and have the supporters of them pay their tab.


You are completely out to lunch. The "illegals" pay exactly the same taxes as everyone else. The 40 billion dollar California Ag business is directly dependent on their labor, the indirect benefit of their labor is in the hundreds of billions of dollars[/QUOTE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
He says he's leaving California -- yet he never does. He says he's leaving this thread -- yet he doesn't.
Minimum day at school today, the whole afternoon spreads out before him and he has nothing today. He couldn't be an employed contributing member of society since that would mean he is playing on the internet instead of working, surely based on all he has said about lazy people, he would not do that!
 
Old 10-13-2011, 04:40 PM
 
298 posts, read 315,224 times
Reputation: 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
But they don't ... they just dig deeper holes of slavery for themselves to the system of cancerous growth ... the greater the technology, the greater the freedom: that's the theory -- theory that has been proven entirely false over and over ... we do not find greater freedom of time ... and our wealth has been declining for decades (except the top 1 - 10%) They ARE forced -- by conditioning, brainwashing ... you're an example, yourself ... the facts that we don't have greater freedom are in your face everyday and you still subscribe to the "more is better" path. What's this? A Messiah complex? You keep returning to this idea that you are somehow contributing to saving the world, and sacrificing by spouting off.
Well, again, you associate acquisition of 'money' / 'being broke' with success and failure ... money is wealth to you .. it is your only measure apparently. That's the only "Big Picture" you see.Just because there are money-obsessed sociopaths out there doesn't give them justification to force their illusion and false definition of wealth on the world.
This is one of the most psychotic posts I think I've ever seen.... Reads even funnier in quote form w/o the context of the words you were replying to - go ahead I dare you, read it out loud

Please let me exclude myself from your "we" and "they" as I effortlessly contradict just about everything you say here. Guess that means I'm brainwashed right? Might as well be since I'm already a Mexican-hating Nazi by some other detractor's estimation. That's right folks, I am Satan incarnate, because I believe legal CA citizens ought to get 100% of the benefits of the taxes they pay for stuff like education, and that California ought to be cleaned up a bit, and that countries like Mexico ought to be manning up and pulling their own weight. You guys reciting the Statue of Liberty are just too much...
 
Old 10-13-2011, 04:53 PM
 
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 3,545,953 times
Reputation: 2622
Dear Scott, you seem to forget that these illegals pay exactly the same taxes as you. Perhaps not as many dollars, perhaps more dollars, depending on your income.
 
Old 10-13-2011, 05:01 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,351 posts, read 10,687,771 times
Reputation: 4078
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy View Post
It was a slogan for an era long past.. I am sure they didn't envision America being $14 trillion dollars in debt either ... Or having the size of govt. and social services that we do....
Let's correct this....its a "slogan" from an era that you want to be long past....because there is still a heavy flow of immigrants into the US.

Also, its not a "slogan"....its from a poem. The debt, etc have nothing to do with immigration policy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy View Post
Again, if tax payer's money didn't go to support this practice .. No one would give two sh*ts about it..
Much of what the anti-immigration folks talk about has nothing to do with tax payer money. Illegals are not a drain on tax dollars....
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