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$40M is NOTHING in the larger context of things. I'd rather have these folks becoming teachers, cops, businesspeople than trying to find work without an education. Maybe some folks are afraid of the competition. This taxpayer and homeowner is proud of the fact the the Dream Act finally was passed.
"You know how I define the economic and social classes in this country? The upper class keeps all of the money, pays none of the taxes. The middle class pays all of the taxes, does all of the work. The poor are there... just to scare the **** out of the middle class. Keep 'em showing up at those jobs."
It's only $41 million today.. $20 million tomorrow .. $100 million the day after .. $500 million a year from now.. $1 billion a year ago.. $2 billion last month and suddenly numbers add up .. Most often I find liberals to be ones who lack the capacity to do math, understand what a trend is, or assemble enough awareness to think about something more than one step deep. The country is filled with them currently and they see the world in a veiled false dilemma ..
I'm curious to know, what do you think about the tens of millions of 'in process' LEGAL immigrants and people of high skill/value who want to come to this country through our immigration process and follow the laws that are already capable of being : teachers, cops, businesspeople, company founders, doctors, scientist, engineers ?
I guess, you would rather roll the dice w/ people who illegally cross the boarder, break our laws, and whom, in aggregate, are generally of far less skill and who will contribute a lot less to our country .. In your world, you think 1 step deep.. So, to enable and approve of such 'illegals'.. you fail to see what consequences they produce in aggregate .. and to what extent you have spit in the face of citizens of this country and most importantly the highly skilled/productive immigrants who respect your country enough to follow the legal immigration process.. Who care enough about this country to not disrespect it and break its laws to selfishly enhance their own quality of life...
And ofc, your view is highlighted by the oft pronounced veil of humanitarianism...
funny how a third option keeps getting ignored or overlooked. Guess it's too "american" for some.
3) encourage a groundswell of public opinion and political pressure on the feds to live up to their responsibility towards the sovereignty of this country and expel the illegal blighters and their spawn - cheaper by the dozen than the other options mentioned.
I strongly urge all those who find this new California law repugnant to act on their conviction and relocate to some other state, please.
Me? I think an educated population is good for a state, there are very few college educated people in street gangs, very few architects, accountants, teachers, Civil Engineers.
So we the taxpayers (this is our home) are the ones who should "LEAVE" this state so the leaches who broke our laws coming here can take over and steal our tax dollars. Plus if they want to go to college, (GO)! Whose stopping them? Just don't steal our money doing it!!
Not it's not ... it's life ... it's reality ... neither of which are math -- or money. No false dilemmas. You, again, and again, reduce human value to financial contribution. You are a financial bigot ... a pygmy family sitting around a campfire in the Congo has as much "net" value to me as anyone else even though they "contribute" nothing by your standards ... they are a "net drain" on the Republic of the Congo as it attempts to emerge into the world economy ... and yet they are among the very most remarkable societies ever on the planet -- and they wander across borders freely without a concern. Elegant, unassuming, egalitarian, delightful, modest, clever, sturdy -- and non-destructive ... wise enough to not destroy their own environment. They are being decimated by people with great academic degrees and business initiative who grasp at a materialistic, financially based future.
The purpose of society and government that supports it is not about balancing the books so that consumerism can reign ... it is an ultimately unsustainable and destructive economic model ... and yet it is your conviction that finance is the path to 'worth'. Your arrogance is showing, again ... you and I will never agree on definitions of human worth ... you value "achievers" with degrees and entrepreneurial initiative who can 'contribute' to taxes and wealth creation -- over the people who scrub the toilets of the former ... I do not ... never have ... never will ... life is too short to waste on anything so spiritless.
And no, it does not take money to support spirit.
And these few undocumented youth will not break your system.
Don't pity them ... no tears being shed here ...
focus on the oligarchs who have created the mentality you buy into.
$40M is NOTHING in the larger context of things. I'd rather have these folks becoming teachers, cops, businesspeople than trying to find work without an education. Maybe some folks are afraid of the competition. This taxpayer and homeowner is proud of the fact the the Dream Act finally was passed.
Then I'm sure you'd be happy to sponsor a student, and pay that $40K. I mean, it's NOTHING, right? Show your pride by putting your money where your mouth is.
Or are you like most liberals - you're only proud to spend OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY?
Not it's not ... it's life ... it's reality ... neither of which are math -- or money. No false dilemmas. You, again, and again, reduce human value to financial contribution. You are a financial bigot ... a pygmy family sitting around a campfire in the Congo has as much "net" value to me as anyone else even though they "contribute" nothing by your standards ... they are a "net drain" on the Republic of the Congo as it attempts to emerge into the world economy ... and yet they are among the very most remarkable societies ever on the planet -- and they wander across borders freely without a concern. Elegant, unassuming, egalitarian, delightful, modest, clever, sturdy -- and non-destructive ... wise enough to not destroy their own environment. They are being decimated by people with great academic degrees and business initiative who grasp at a materialistic, financially based future.
You're loosing me again Null .. It's simple ... If you want to keep allowing untracked, unfiltered, unscreened, people from the 'congo' into the country (illegals) over filtered/screened immigrants .. You are going to turn this place into a 'congo'...
And you're again making relative comparisons .. If you want, compare the illegal w/ no degree .. doesn't speak a lick of English .. will have 3-4 kids they can't adequately care for w/ an industrious/intelligent immigrant who comes to the U.S ... screened .. has a degree.. is of high IQ .. starts a company that employees thousands ...
Now, draw a trend chart and trajectory for a country that lets in the former by and large over the later.. I reflect .. It's basic math.
All is fun and humanitarianism until you've run the country in the ground and it is the congo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo
The purpose of society and government that supports it is not about balancing the books so that consumerism can reign ... it is an ultimately unsustainable and destructive economic model ...
Another false dilemma ..
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo
and yet it is your conviction that finance is the path to 'worth'. Your arrogance is showing, again ...
Null.. you're showing out again.. We've had a side discussion.. you know my center focus is not finance.. I trade/invest (on the side) because in doing so... I don't have to deal w/ someone discriminating or limiting my potential due to the color of my skin. Money knows no skin color or name.. When I throw my money in the market, it performs the same just as anyone else's ...
I understand that I can't eat w/o it.. I come from a poor household where I learned that such idealistic views of the world are beholden of those w/ money and a warm meal on the table ... For the rest of the world, you have to work hard and make money in order to put food on the table and eat .. So, I am sorry for being arrogant in trying to provide for myself and future family and secure their financial security ... I mean, how dare I do this in America....
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo
you and I will never agree on definitions of human worth ... you value "achievers" with degrees and entrepreneurial initiative who can 'contribute' to taxes and wealth creation -- over the people who scrub the toilets of the former
I've scrubbed toilets, greased my hands, mowed yards in heat far worse than California ... laid tile... laid bricks .. painted homes... done my fair share of labor I can go on and on about .. save your guilt trip for someone else.
I've crawled from the bottom to the middle and don't care for what you are trying to suggest. By having 12% unemployment and the large number of Americans on the dole for years .. Your policy suggestion is that americans should be paid to sit around on their buts while work needs to be done. Nothing is beneath me and my wonderful masters degree.. I'll get out and put in a septic tank.. be a garbage man .. mow grass and labor tomorrow if it was required of me .. and be dam proud to do it ...
What proponents of illegal immigrants suggest is that Americans shouldn't .. and that is a policy that is enacted by allowing and fostering illegals in this state.. Which I find to be rather hilarious.. In other states where I have spent time, you see people washing their cars, mowing their lawns, doing yard work and laboring proudly ... See laboring Americans who own lawn services/roof cleaning business living in middle class homes in nice neighborhoods along w/ the rest of the degree people .. Only was it when I came to the oh so liberal gracious humanitarian holier than thou California did I come to know about Car Washes (typically all mexican) ... Lawn services (all mexican) ... baby sitters (all mexican) .. Cleaning people (all mexican) ...
For all the humanitarian blather you people spew in this state, you sure like your borderline cheap slave labor from what I can't ignore must be a lot of illegal immigrants... God forbid you remove the illegals in this state.. Life as you know it for a liberal would end ... They'd have to actually pay fair wages for labor/work or god forbid get their hands dirty and have to cut a trip to smell sunflowers on a hike on hold..
Calling me holier than thou .. LOL, I've done and do such labor proudly .. Can't say the same for a lof of people I observe in this state who work their day job and wont let the dirt touch their hands or the sun pierce their skin.. That ofc is reserved for cheap under the table labor from mexican immigrants...
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo
... I do not ... never have ... never will ... life is too short to waste on anything so spiritless.
And no, it does not take money to support spirit.
And these few undocumented youth will not break your system.
Don't pity them ... no tears being shed here ...
focus on the oligarchs who have created the mentality you buy into.
The oligarchs huh?
"You know how I define the economic and social classes in this country? The upper class keeps all of the money, pays none of the taxes. The middle class pays all of the taxes, does all of the work. The poor are there... just to scare the sh*t out of the middle class. Keep 'em showing up at those jobs."
and boy are they importing a lot of em.....
The ones that enjoy the largest share of the proceeds of illegal immigration are the oligarchs (which is why nothing is done about it) and dump the social costs on everyone else...
You're pissing out the wrong window good sir...
In past posts, I have pointed out how sad and ridiculous it is that the very policies people keep supporting in this country are the ones that screw them over the most ... I refrain from it because I am called an arrogant elitist as a result.. can you not see why I spend less time trying to help/reach/educate people and more time betting, in markets, that they will do stupid sh*t. support stupid policies that screw them over and make others rich?
It's a guaranteed bet...
You try to inform.. Show people what's behind the veil.. they call you names.. try to attack your character .. focus on either but the debate/facts...
why bother? I can use the assured results of their ignorance/stupidity to make one way bets in the market... To offset the impacts their actions/policy endorsements will have on my life.. and that's the power of money.. to offset the idiocy of others ... to make a person show what they are really made of ...
You support illegals? You support their education? Sign on the dotted line w/ the rest of the supporters.. All of you are responsible for paying all of the social costs their being here results in.. paying for their kids when they want to go to college.. paying for their K-12 ... oh no, you're running out of money? too bad .. I guess in your liberal world, money is infinite ... I guess in reality its not.. now you can explain to your kid .. your wife .. why you have no money to pay the bills.. pay for their education...
Now who wants to sign up? Anyone? Yeah .. that's what I thought ...
If the supporters of certain policies in this country had to sign up for the costs and bear it alone among supporters .. you'd see a hellavuh lot less of this ignorant wishful thinking humanitarianism that doesn't scale/isn't sustainable.
But it's a democracy and you get to extort and force others to pay for your myopic policies.. Yeah, and its capitalism and, in order to get my money back, I get to bet that they will scr*w you and this country over and enrich the oligarchs you detest but ignorantly support through uninformed/blinded support of veiled policies.
Last edited by yeahthatguy; 10-10-2011 at 12:39 PM..
Then I'm sure you'd be happy to sponsor a student, and pay that $40K. I mean, it's NOTHING, right? Show your pride by putting your money where your mouth is.
Or are you like most liberals - you're only proud to spend OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY?
What exactly did you have to 'witness daily' in California that caused you elevated stress levels?
Seeing illegals get/take all the freebies, that we taxpayers pay for. I thought my post was self explanatory, sorry. And I did see it daily...from my neighbors.
Well, speaking for the contingent still here, we're glad you left too ... what concerns me (for your welfare of course) is why you continue to "witness this junk" by reading the news about it and then coming onto the forum here to blather ... put your feet up ... take a pill ... turn off the tv ... turn on some tunes ... don't concern your poor aching head about when the rest of us are going to wake up ... we'll just muddle through without you.
Wow, got some nasty's in here, huh? I'm glad your glad I left too! I'm not a Ca. hater, I loved it for about the 1st 45 yrs, hated how it changed. Ca. has what no other state has, and it saddens me that its being givin away and trashed. I would have never left otherwise. And since I still have family & friends and property there, I will continue to watch & worry about it. I'll go now & listen to some tunes, and I'd recommend the song "Your not the boss of me" for you to chill with. Oh, and didnt know I post in the Ca. forums much.
I've been in countless political/immigration debates on this forum .... but I have little fight left in me. This is truly sad. The government of this state has forgotten its people and passed legislation assisting people who do not belong here in the first place. I don't care - and even feel a bit of sorrow - for those here illegally who were brought here before they were old enough to understand what was going on - but a line has to be drawn. As someone who has never taken a penny of government money, I really can't stand a hand-out being given to someone who is illegally here.
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Plus if they want to go to college, (GO)! Whose stopping them? Just don't steal our money doing it!!
... a pygmy family sitting around a campfire in the Congo has as much "net" value to me as anyone else even though they "contribute" nothing by your standards ... they are a "net drain" on the Republic of the Congo as it attempts to emerge into the world economy ... and yet they are among the very most remarkable societies ever on the planet -- and they wander across borders freely without a concern. Elegant, unassuming, egalitarian, delightful, modest, clever, sturdy -- and non-destructive ... wise enough to not destroy their own environment. They are being decimated by people with great academic degrees and business initiative who grasp at a materialistic, financially based future.
's them up really quick ..
I'm not a Ca. hater, I loved it for about the 1st 45 yrs, hated how it changed. Ca. has what no other state has, and it saddens me that its being givin away and trashed. I would have never left otherwise. And since I still have family & friends and property there, I will continue to watch & worry about it. I'll go now & listen to some tunes, and I'd recommend the song "Your not the boss of me" for you to chill with. Oh, and didnt know I post in the Ca. forums much. 
