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Old 10-18-2011, 06:28 AM
 
Location: SW MO
23,605 posts, read 31,371,200 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Courage of convictions will lead to a bloodbath at some point.
And potential convictions of another sort!
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Old 10-18-2011, 10:41 AM
 
Location: So Ca
15,612 posts, read 14,880,955 times
Reputation: 13536
"No matter who you are or how well you are trained, when you see a situation like this, it's overwhelming," Acting Police Chief Rober Luman said. (L.A. Times, today.) I really doubt that any of us not-so-well-trained bystanders would have been able to do anything if armed, other than cause mass confusion.
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Old 10-19-2011, 07:06 PM
 
Location: Southern California
30,200 posts, read 16,739,466 times
Reputation: 53321
This shooting has left the son of Michelle Fournier and Scott Dekraai without parents:

Seal Beach shooting leaves boy without parents | boy, child, fis - News - The Orange County Register

Quote:
He was waiting, Orange County District Attorney Tony Rackauckas said, for his mom or dad to pick him up. Rackauckas appeared to tear up during a Friday news conference and took several moments before adding: "That little boy is a victim."
This is so incredibly sad.
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Old 10-22-2012, 06:35 AM
 
Location: So Ca
15,612 posts, read 14,880,955 times
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They're going to re-open the salon. That took courage.
A year after deadly shootings, Seal Beach salon prepares to reopen - latimes.com
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Old 10-22-2012, 07:31 AM
 
Location: California / Maryland / Cape May
1,548 posts, read 2,506,782 times
Reputation: 1235
Quote:
Originally Posted by CA4Now View Post
They're going to re-open the salon. That took courage.
A year after deadly shootings, Seal Beach salon prepares to reopen - latimes.com
Wow. I can't even imagine. It surely did.
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Old 02-28-2014, 07:28 AM
 
Location: So Ca
15,612 posts, read 14,880,955 times
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"Defense attorneys seek to dismiss death penalty allegation against Dekraai, accused of killing eight people, because prosecutors illegally used a jailhouse informant operation."
Attorneys in mass killing say O.C. illegally used snitch - latimes.com
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Old 02-28-2014, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Overlooking the vineyards, olive groves, cattle and horses in the hills of San Miguel CA
167 posts, read 266,372 times
Reputation: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by CA4Now View Post
"No matter who you are or how well you are trained, when you see a situation like this, it's overwhelming," Acting Police Chief Rober Luman said. (L.A. Times, today.) I really doubt that any of us not-so-well-trained bystanders would have been able to do anything if armed, other than cause mass confusion.
The Police Chief, as usual, was espousing the cop propaganda that anyone using a gun to defend themselves is probably a vigilante or a hopelessly untrained civilian who will only cause more mayhem in situations like this. They *should* say that in the presence of the press, too- how could they be seen endorsing a concealed-carry driven society in public and for the record... he might even believe in Robert A. Heinlein's quote: "An armed society is a polite society."... but he probably only says that in private. But maybe we should also take that statement in context, not as an absolute.

Okay, the point is taken... but the other shoe dropping sounds like a .45 Automatic double-tapping a killer in the process of doing what he planned on doing- slaughter, pre-determined and executed (no pun intended) by ambush on who he or she presumes are unarmed, helpless victims.

Reading about the Seal Beach tragedy I feel just like I did about the Luby's cafeteria slaughter in TX years ago... and Seal Beach again reminds me of the situation I found myself in back in the 1970s in Austin... a boyfriend of one of the dancers in the club where I worked as the doorman showed with that same murderous intent with two automatic pistols for a nice total of 34 9mm bullets at his disposal, by surprise after he backed his truck up to the back door to keep them closed and climbed into the place through a bathroom window.

I heard the first three shots from the front door. Back in the day in Austin an 18-year old like me could apply for and obtain a CCW permit. I was wearing a Detonics Combat Master .45 auto in a shoulder holster that I lightly trained with, about an hour a week. I shot the guy twice in the head from a distance of about 40 feet... HE was wearing a bp vest under his jacket and was pretty good at shooting people as he was a decorated ex-Marine. It wasn't heroism on my part... it was self-defense. Three people were wounded although thankfully non fatally. The only fatality that day was the shooter.

There's nothing I would have done differently.. this place was a rough joint, the kind of place where the ammonia pucks in the urinals keep disappearing because the patrons mistake them for breath mints as the joke goes... no patrons were armed at the time and we had no policy of disarming customers at the door like many other TX bars did. But no one had any idea they were about to be ambushed by a skilled well-armed guy who showed up to kill as many people as possible, starting with his (ex) girlfriend, who made a full recovery.

The fact that this idiot got what he deserved and I was questioned AT THE SCENE for ten minutes before being released to go on my way (to get a stiff drink at a nearby bar, natch) is testament to the matter-of-fact and thoroughly pragmatic CCW laws in effect in TX at the time. Texas was then, is now and probably always will be a rough place. Cops in Austin at the time had their hands full. They didn't feel it was necessary to lie to the residents of the city of Austin about the vagaries of response time in the most progressive/liberal town in the frakken' state AND about having the right to defend their right to continue 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' in the face of such senseless violence aimed (again, no pun intended) at them that night. Many Police Officers at the time well remembered the infamous 'bell tower' shootings at UT Austin years before, when, to quote crimelibrary.com, "... Ex-Marine Charles Joseph Whitman, a student at the University of Texas at Austin, went on a shooting spree that began around midnight on August 1, 1966... Whitman's story stands out for many reasons, not the least of which being that it features a co-star-the University of Texas Tower, from which he fired almost unimpeded for 96 minutes..."

Massad Ayoob, a law-enforcement combat firearms instructor since 1974 (among other things) has written two benchmark books on this general subject that are amazingly helpful and edifying for 'civilians'... 'In the Gravest Extreme' and 'The Truth About Self-Defense'... I strongly suggest anyone considering arming themselves in this star or any other read both books before making that decision and anyone already doing so as well. Anyone considering the huge responsibility that goes with a CCW ought to know at least the content of these two books before deciding whether or not they are ready willing and able to use deadly force if and when it's ever necessary.

Hey, it's my experience- YMMV... but more people would have probably been wounded or murdered that day many years ago if I hadn't shot that coward. I STILL use and always will my CCW every day to wear protection I hope I will never again be forced to use. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by six, as they say.

Last edited by threepounduniverse; 02-28-2014 at 12:12 PM..
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Old 04-29-2014, 07:51 AM
 
Location: So Ca
15,612 posts, read 14,880,955 times
Reputation: 13536
Dekraai is pleading guilty to 8 counts of special circumstances murder and one count of attempted murder: Seal Beach hair salon massacre suspect to plead guilty to 8 slayings - latimes.com
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