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Lately I have been debating this quite a bit. I am a late 30s Software Engineer here in the greater Los Angeles area with a pretty lucrative job and am considering moving out of California. I've lived here in greater LA area for the last 13 yrs and I'm thinking it's time to make a change. As a techie possible locations are Houston, Austin, Seattle and Atlanta. I have no interest in moving to the very cold climates...NYC or Chicago are out...my tropical genes could not take it
Pros of moving:
- much more family oriented, less materialistic, more down to earth..friendlier and community oriented people with better values (in my opinion, don't mean to offend anyone). I had taken a year sabbatical to travel around the world last year and made more friends in that single year than I've made in the entire 13 years I've lived here. Infact, most of my friends are out of Los Angeles, overseas and in other parts of the US, which tells me something.
- much better standard of living with low COL and relatively high wages in my field. I could easily afford a nice home with possibly a pool whereas here I have to sacrifice with a small starter townhome and even that is quite expensive!
- As a single who is trying to find someone to start a family with there are HUGELY better dating prospects elsewhere, dating here in SoCal given my age is a complete and total disaster with materialistic, egotistical, rude, flaky, self-absorbed and shallow women. I HAVE met some nice women who had potential but it takes so long to find them as I have to sift through 50 unappealing women to find 1 good one, they are rare, it's very taxing. I've met so many great women, interested in me, when i'm out of LA but it's always the case that I can't spend enough time to get to know them more! Perhaps my luck will change if I just move to where they are at!
- Easier to make friends. What can I say...people here are too busy to make new friends. I am extremely social and had a huge circle of friends when I lived elsewhere. I do have friends in the greater SoCal area but it is so spread out and I have moved so many times that it's impossible to see them. The "rat race" is extreme here and people stick to their own social circles that most have made growing up or from college!
- Lower taxes and more income, with my Fed tax rate of 28%, CA state tax rate of 10% and then payroll taxes my marginal rate is close to an insane 50%, and yet with all these taxes this state is BROKE! In addition don't forget high sales taxes as well...and what exactly am I getting for paying such high taxes?
- Better traffic..well traffic is bad in every city but surely can't be so bad that it takes me 40 minutes to go 10 miles down the 405. I find that pathetic and adds to stress.
Cons:
- worse weather, the weather in So CA is not what it used to be now with all this frequent rain from Nov-Mar which is a significant part of the year, but in a general case the weather will be a bit worse anywhere else. The humidity in the South is quite challenging.
- will find it hard to pursue some of my favorite activities: Scuba and snowboarding..although I think it's possible to snowboard around Seattle. There is no Scuba in Atlanta or Houston but they are closer to the Caribbean and Florida where the diving is great.
- Not as many career opportunities as SoCal and NorCal are better tech hubs, but one has to evaluate if career is the most important thing in life if advancing it is at the detriment of other aspects of your life.
- I love the outdoors and in my opinion I would really miss the amazing natural beauty of the Western US (mountains, beaches, forests etc.) if I moved to the South.
So, what do you think? Is this a case of "the grass looks greener on the other side" or are these viewpoints legitimate? Have any of you contemplated along similar lines?
Lately I have been debating this quite a bit. I am a late 30s Software Engineer here in the greater Los Angeles area with a pretty lucrative job and am considering moving out of California. I've lived here in greater LA area for the last 13 yrs and I'm thinking it's time to make a change. As a techie possible locations are Houston, Austin, Seattle and Atlanta. I have no interest in moving to the very cold climates...NYC or Chicago are out...my tropical genes could not take it
Pros of moving:
- much more family oriented, less materialistic, more down to earth..friendlier and community oriented people with better values (in my opinion, don't mean to offend anyone). I had taken a year sabbatical to travel around the world last year and made more friends in that single year than I've made in the entire 13 years I've lived here. Infact, most of my friends are out of Los Angeles, overseas and in other parts of the US, which tells me something.
- much better standard of living with low COL and relatively high wages in my field. I could easily afford a nice home with possibly a pool whereas here I have to sacrifice with a small starter townhome and even that is quite expensive!
- As a single who is trying to find someone to start a family with there are HUGELY better dating prospects elsewhere, dating here in SoCal given my age is a complete and total disaster with materialistic, egotistical, rude, flaky, self-absorbed and shallow women. I HAVE met some nice women who had potential but it takes so long to find them as I have to sift through 50 unappealing women to find 1 good one, they are rare, it's very taxing. I've met so many great women, interested in me, when i'm out of LA but it's always the case that I can't spend enough time to get to know them more! Perhaps my luck will change if I just move to where they are at!
- Easier to make friends. What can I say...people here are too busy to make new friends. I am extremely social and had a huge circle of friends when I lived elsewhere. I do have friends in the greater SoCal area but it is so spread out and I have moved so many times that it's impossible to see them. The "rat race" is extreme here and people stick to their own social circles that most have made growing up or from college!
- Lower taxes and more income, with my Fed tax rate of 28%, CA state tax rate of 10% and then payroll taxes my marginal rate is close to an insane 50%, and yet with all these taxes this state is BROKE! In addition don't forget high sales taxes as well...and what exactly am I getting for paying such high taxes?
- Better traffic..well traffic is bad in every city but surely can't be so bad that it takes me 40 minutes to go 10 miles down the 405. I find that pathetic and adds to stress.
Cons:
- worse weather, the weather in So CA is not what it used to be now with all this frequent rain from Nov-Mar which is a significant part of the year, but in a general case the weather will be a bit worse anywhere else. The humidity in the South is quite challenging.
- will find it hard to pursue some of my favorite activities: Scuba and snowboarding..although I think it's possible to snowboard around Seattle. There is no Scuba in Atlanta or Houston but they are closer to the Caribbean and Florida where the diving is great.
- Not as many career opportunities as SoCal and NorCal are better tech hubs, but one has to evaluate if career is the most important thing in life if advancing it is at the detriment of other aspects of your life.
- I love the outdoors and in my opinion I would really miss the amazing natural beauty of the Western US (mountains, beaches, forests etc.) if I moved to the South.
So, what do you think? Is this a case of "the grass looks greener on the other side" or are these viewpoints legitimate? Have any of you contemplated along similar lines?
These are the very reasons I am leaving California. I am in my mid 20's and live in the valley (bay area) norcal.
- Not as many career opportunities as SoCal and NorCal are better tech hubs, but one has to evaluate if career is the most important thing in life if advancing it is at the detriment of other aspects of your life.
You hit it on the head...
High taxes .. high cost of living .. not fond of the people .. have more friends elsewhere all over the world ....
Can buy a house in cash vs. put down on a dinky shack here ...
TAXES .. yes, i pay that 28% rate too .. + 9.xx% for silly cali ..I'm tired of that and serves as diminishing returns for my "career" aspiration.
How often do you snowboard? the seasons is centered around winter... winter holiday.. take a break from wherever you move.. fly out .. join some friends.. ski/snowboard the slopes for a week and move on. I snowboard in Tahoe as well but its not like I am going to sacrifice my day to day life in order to be 'closer' to snowboarding/skiing which i do a small portion of the year... same for scuba'ng .. good weather.. k, M-F, how often does the good weather matter? you're at work for most of the year .. so, the weekend comes.. take a trip somewhere funded by the extra cash in your pocket.. i bet for many who rave about california's weather.. they rarely go out and enjoy it .. rarely travel further than 100 square miles of where they are ..
random beauty from Texas ...
It's your life. .your decision. I am looking to buy a place cash (forget the 30 year mortgage i would have to sign up for in cali).. that purchase price difference alone translates to 30 years of freedom for me ...
No place on earth is worth sacrificing that kind of freedom ..
looking to pursue ventures/investments w/o worrying about elevated pay (due to COL) being taxed higher w/ every increasing idiotic support for higher taxes at the federal/state level .. M-F I am going to be at work.. i want to enjoy the fruits of my labor ....
I travel alot .. even living in beautiful Cali it's nice to get out and see the big world out there.. living local to things when you are actual one of the people who work for a living is overrated.
Cheers in your decision mate.. as a fellow engineer.. I am getting out of here ~5 years earlier than you and never looking back accept to maybe visit my friends from time to time and enjoy Calif. w/o giving it my paycheck.
I think you should make the move. You won't know until you try and I don't see that you will loose anything as you can always move back if you ever want to.
The friends thing...I am familiar. Having freinds all over the US, and the world, sounds great yet they are usually freinds precicely because you don't live close to them. It just works that way, I don't know why.
Not every place is good for everyone. Try something else.
I would say the evidence is pretty strongly in favor of moving based on what's important to you. I agree with your general assessment. I live in the Bay Area and most/all of what you said about L.A. would also apply up here. If you really want a wife and kids, California is not a family friendly place just going by the cost of living alone. In general, people are happier when they have meaningful relationships. You will likely miss the CA weather, but I think that's a fairly small price to pay.
If you can get a good job in another state then I don't see why you shouldn't go for it. If you're single then it will be easier to make the move. Moving is an ordeal but picking up stakes and trying life in another state is always fun. California is a decent place to start a career when you're young but it's not always great for career development (lots of flaky employers and competition for promotion from other overachieving hires) and it's so expensive and schools are so crummy that it's not a great place to raise a family.
PROS of moving - much more family oriented, less materialistic, more down to earth..friendlier and community oriented people.
- much better standard of living with low COL and relatively high wages in my field. - As a single who is trying to find someone to start a family with there are HUGELY better dating prospects elsewhere...
- Easier to make friends. I do have friends in the greater SoCal area but it is so spread out and I have moved so many times that it's impossible to..
- Lower taxes and more income,
- Better traffic..
I think that you answered your own question. Today, living in So CA for someone who was not raised here or doesn't have family here has got to be very, very difficult, especially for a single person who's in the greater L.A. area and not in the suburbs (why would you be), where you actually do meet people and make friends. Even those of us who went out of state to college and came back to start a career had a hard time re-entering L.A. In addition, when we were doing it, the cost of living here was much lower. Good luck.
OK, seems like our situation here. We moved from Los Angeles 5 years ago to Houston, TX for almost the same reasons (mosthly the economical) you mentioned before. Sure, COLA is lower, people are friendlier (on the outside), girls "seem" more genuine and taxes are less. Boy, now we know why. Can you say Thirld World in Texas with right wing religious zealots caring less about pathetic infrastructure, public gentrification, lack of geography, did I mention the HELLISH HEAT and BUGS? The drivers are simply the worst, reckless and do not show your anger or they might shoot you or simply drive you over with their "Texas edition" 4x4 monster raised trucks. Also, you will never be a Texan since you are not from Texas, a separate nation to many
If you do decide to move, I would simply forget about Texas, yes, even Austin. I liked Atlanta, never been to Seattle but the rain would depress me as much as Texas does now.
Atlanta IS a hight tech hub, per capita probably even more than Los Angeles and it is a nice city.
If you can afford California, stay there. If you do not like L.A. , move to San Francisco or San Diego but sometimes intangible things in life seem more important than economics. I cannot imagine you cannot make it as an IT engineer ( I am in the same field) or meet anybody your liking there.
Anyway, good luck to you while we are contemplating on trying to make it back. Also, check Raleigh in North Carolina and D.C. as well since you are into IT.
- Not as many career opportunities as SoCal and NorCal are better tech hubs, but one has to evaluate if career is the most important thing in life if advancing it is at the detriment of other aspects of your life.
You live in LA, huh. Thinking whether life would be better somewhere else? Does the term "no brainer" fit here? ('cept for that Houston idea)
And BTW the snowboarding is excellent in the Seattle part of the world.
And note what I bolded. Given the choice I'd rather be happy than successful career-wise. I've always pursued the place rather than a career. And here I am...living in the Sierras, 40 minutes from a ski resort and doing just fine financially. Not rich, but quite happy.
I am on the same boat as you but the only difference is...WERE MOVING FOR SURE!. Me and my husband lived in SCAL for over 20 years, we absoulately hate it here! High taxes, overpopulation, traffic, unfriendly, materialistic, greedy people with no morals, broke school system..not a place to raise a family, i can go on and on. California cannot offer us anything good( except the weather). I know quality of living is better in other cities because me and husband were raised out of Cali, so we can compare unlike native californians that I have ran into that believe I am crazy to leave Cali.
I've heard good things about Austin, TX so I visited and absolutely loved it!!! Its beautiful and green people seem friendly and have morals. school system is good and COL affordable..way better environment than SCAL We are thinking of relocating in Northern suburbs of Austin, (Round Rock TX)
In my opinion I would consider Austin, TX. esp in your career field of IT, from my research about Austin they are nicknamed "silicon Hills" in comparison to NCAL silicon valley. Good luck
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