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Old 11-21-2011, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Police State
1,472 posts, read 1,231,373 times
Reputation: 1225

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Quote:
Originally Posted by krudmonk View Post
Hahaha, this keeps getting played up as justification for the incident, as if officers in riot gear are unable to escape a circle of people holding hands whilst sitting on the ground. Ridiculous spin.
Who cares how they were sitting, they were breaking the law. Would you rather they were tasered, gassed, or beaten with batons?

All of you, please stop making this into something it clearly wasn't.

 
Old 11-21-2011, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Police State
1,472 posts, read 1,231,373 times
Reputation: 1225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollytree View Post
To all those posters calling the protesting students "brats":

I wonder what you would have called the citizens who dumped the tea in Boston's harbor- back in the day- and torched the British ships in RI's port? (These students were protesting very peacefully in comparison).
Your powers of fallacious logic are tragically impressive.
 
Old 11-21-2011, 03:36 PM
 
Location: SW MO Aux Arcs
19,223 posts, read 16,572,878 times
Reputation: 17345
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZhugeLiang View Post
Who cares how they were sitting, they were breaking the law. Would you rather they were tasered, gassed, or beaten with batons?

All of you, please stop making this into something it clearly wasn't.
Seems to me that's precisely what you're doing. I was a cop for a number of years. I never would have reacted that way to what those cops were facing unless and until someone made an aggressive move in my direction. Then Katy bar the door. But that's not what happened there. It was unnecessary and indefensible over-reaction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZhugeLiang View Post
Your powers of fallacious logic are tragically impressive.
Pot, meet Kettle!
 
Old 11-21-2011, 03:43 PM
 
2,090 posts, read 2,258,617 times
Reputation: 1068
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
Seems to me that's precisely what you're doing. I was a cop for a number of years. I never would have reacted that way to what those cops were facing unless and until someone made an aggressive move in my direction. Then Katy bar the door. But that's not what happened there. It was unnecessary and indefensible over-reaction.



Pot, meet Kettle!

Agreed.

I'm not sure why some feel the need to tell us what is newsworthy or not. The UC President Yudof and Chancellor Katehi have both publicly agreed that the use of pepper spray on non-violent protesters were uncalled for.
 
Old 11-21-2011, 03:50 PM
 
7,151 posts, read 4,418,170 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZhugeLiang View Post
So let me get this straight, a group of students were protesting, were then found to be illegally trespassing, then were ordered to disperse by the police, the students respond by surrounding the officers and refused to let them out, and somehow it's controversial that a few of them got hit with pepper spray? I find it laughably disingenuous that people are making this out to be something it isn't. Civil disobedience, is still disobedience. You aren't free from the consequences of your actions just because you feel like the ends justify the means.

When the police order you to disperse, you might want to listen, just sayin'.

A Kent State moment, this ain't. I'm siding with the police on this one.
Good to know you are so "obedient".
Sit!
Stay!
Shake!
Now roll over Rover!
Very good doggie! Now you can have a treat!
You're just the kinda pup I've been looking for - for when I start my own dictatorship. No matter what I tell my goons to do to MY subjects when I am king, I want my "small people" to obey!

The cops weren't "surrounded" by a sitting straight line of students. They weren't threatened in any way. And there is quite a difference between " ... a few getting hit with pepper spray" -- as if the wind blew a bit at them -- and having a cop fire a canister point blank in their faces from inches away as they sat non-violently.

As for not being free of the consequences of your actions: you are correct: the two pepper spray cops, and their top cop boss, are all suspended ... and the university chancellor is being pressured by her own people to resign ... heads will roll over this ... there's your consequences.

This is America.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZhugeLiang View Post
Yeah, beating the **** out of them with their nightsticks would have been far more humane.
Your comments are tasteless, glib, callous, and cavalier ... MOD CUT. Fill me in on the great sacrifices you have made on behalf of my country that entitles you to judge my fellow citizens as you do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZhugeLiang View Post
No, England quit India because it was more trouble than it was worth.
Nonsense. The only thing that made India "not worth keeping" was the opposition of its citizens to oppressive foreign rule.

Last edited by NewToCA; 11-21-2011 at 04:01 PM.. Reason: getting a bit too personal there...
 
Old 11-21-2011, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
13,473 posts, read 16,319,342 times
Reputation: 5314
A couple of observations.

It seems to me that there isn't any logical support for the pepper spray incident, even if the students weren't exactly following instructions. Alternative measures exist.

Also, some of you seem to think the student protests have to do with further support for what is happening with the "occupy" movement. Personally, I kind of wonder if they would have had much attendance at the protest if it wasn't about increased college tuition. I'm not sure much of the protest was anything beyond "I don't want to pay more".
 
Old 11-21-2011, 04:43 PM
 
7,151 posts, read 4,418,170 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToCA View Post
A couple of observations.

It seems to me that there isn't any logical support for the pepper spray incident, even if the students weren't exactly following instructions. Alternative measures exist.

Also, some of you seem to think the student protests have to do with further support for what is happening with the "occupy" movement. Personally, I kind of wonder if they would have had much attendance at the protest if it wasn't about increased college tuition. I'm not sure much of the protest was anything beyond "I don't want to pay more".
I don't agree that you can separate the tuition increase protest from the OWS protest this time around. Much has been made in discussions and coverage by the media about the plight of today's college graduates. The issues of student loan debt and lack of opportunity for graduates is part of the mainstream of the movement. The excesses and fraud of the financial elites have crashed the economy -- including opportunities for today's youth. OWS crosses all age groups, but student disillusionment will rank among the greatest forces to feed this cultural response.

We had student protest over tuition hikes before -- sure ... and it always eventually fizzled. Bet this doesn't. Now they have a larger picture in which to place themselves pretty centrally. European youth are showing the way with their anger and frustration, as well.
 
Old 11-21-2011, 05:10 PM
 
1,570 posts, read 916,837 times
Reputation: 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimC2462 View Post
So break them apart using reasonable force and then arrest them. Simple as that.

But the campus police had to go beyond in attacking these non-violent protesters by pepper spraying in their face, even forcing it down their throat after they tried to keep their eyes and mouth shut.
What is reasonable force? Pepper spray is certainly very, very, unpleasant, but at the end of the day, it's likely to cause less injury than going hands on or using batons.
 
Old 11-21-2011, 05:10 PM
 
4,360 posts, read 3,664,541 times
Reputation: 3858
The policies of the police department will dictate the actions of the investigation. If the policy allows for use Of pepper spray in these situations, then the officer is in the clear, if he violated then he should be dealt with for violating policy.
 
Old 11-21-2011, 05:11 PM
 
1,570 posts, read 916,837 times
Reputation: 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
More like the true hallmark of anarchy. There's a huge difference between an expectation of arrest and being assaulted with OC spray.
By interlocking their arms, they weren't planning on complying with the arresting officer, were they? They knew what was going to happen, and they wanted to make it difficult for the cops - maybe they were hoping something like this wold happen, martyr themselves, get some good P.R...
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