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Old 11-20-2011, 11:25 PM
 
Location: Sputnik Planitia
7,826 posts, read 11,752,083 times
Reputation: 9045

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I admire that these students are protesting these tution hikes. Tution hiking is one of the biggest scams in this country and someone has to put a stop to it.

 
Old 11-21-2011, 04:39 AM
 
Location: SW MO
23,593 posts, read 37,394,969 times
Reputation: 29336
A spurious argument at best!

Davis police officials said their officers were attempting to get campers to pack up Friday afternoon when the officers felt surrounded and, in an effort to get through the crowd, at least one officer sprayed protesters sitting with arms locked on the sidewalk.

"There was no way out of that circle," said UC Davis Police Chief Annette Spicuzza. "It's a very volatile situation."


Seems to me that the officer who started spraying the students stepped inside the circle and then opened up on them. So much for no way out and feeling surrounded!
 
Old 11-21-2011, 05:12 AM
 
1,569 posts, read 2,040,441 times
Reputation: 621
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimC2462 View Post
UC Davis chancellor calls for task force to review pepper spraying of protesters - Yolo County News - sacbee.com (http://www.sacbee.com/2011/11/19/4066778/uc-davis-chancellor-calls-for.html#storylink=omni_popular - broken link)


Raw Footage Of UC Davis Peaceful Protesters Pepper Sprayed - YouTube

So let me get this straight, a peaceful protest of the tuition fee hike by sitting on the sidewalk to block the path actually warrants being pepper sprayed in the face by the police? The students blocking the sidewalk posed NO threat to the police.

It's very alarming that Chancellor Katehi defended the actions of the campus police, then caved into launching a full investigation by an outside reviewer. What a shame. The chancellor is supposed to protect the students, not attack them.
lol

MOTHER****ER!MOTHER****ER!MOTHER****ER!MOTHER****E R!MOTHER****ER!MOTHER****ER!MOTHER****ER!MOTHER*** *ER!MOTHER****ER!MOTHER****ER!MOTHER****ER!MOTHER* ***ER!MOTHER****ER!MOTHER****ER!MOTHER****ER!MOTHE R****ER!MOTHER****ER!MOTHER****ER!MOTHER****ER!MOT HER****ER!MOTHER****ER!MOTHER****ER!MOTHER****ER!M OTHER****ER!MOTHER****ER!MOTHER****ER!MOTHER****ER !MOTHER****ER!MOTHER****ER!MOTHER****ER!MOTHER**** ER!MOTHER****ER!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BullCity75 View Post
That guy doing the pepper spraying should go to prison and the other officers who watched him and did nothing should be fired and barred from ever working in law enforcement again.

With all the talk with the Penn State disaster about having a responsibility to stop a crime when you witness it, how can all those police officers stand there and watch that? They have no right to use a weapon like that when they are under no threat.
So how should the police have gone about arresting them? Their arms were interlinked, because the protesters knew they were breaking the law, and would ultimately be arrested.

I'm just curious what the alternative is, since you have stated physical force isn't acceptable to effect an arrest in this circumstance - since you seem to have the answer...
 
Old 11-21-2011, 05:23 AM
 
1,569 posts, read 2,040,441 times
Reputation: 621
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Here's the thing, Dawg -- banter aside ... if peaceful citizens always conformed to LEO's just because LEO's said to do so and so, we wouldn't have a United States of America. Civil disobedience by moral authority is a foundational cornerstone of a free nation -- your nation. You are also free to move to a police state if you prefer that lifestyle. But you are not free to bring a police state to my yard. Check the opening paragraphs of your Declaration of Independence. The Declaration of Independence

I don't go to protests, expressly because I am not capable of remaining peaceful. The cumulative effect of my life experiences combined with my personality renders me violently confrontational when challenged. Slightest hint of threat and I go into full assault mode -- yeah, still, despite my getting long-in-the-tooth. These protestors show remarkable character and strength I am incapable of myself. Hats off to them.
Nice idea, but civil disobedience comes with it the expectation of getting arrested because you are cognizantly breaking the law to make a point.

Rule of law is for suckers, the true hallmark of a free society is understanding that the law applies to other people, not yourself. Wonder if NullGeo would be saying this if the moral authority of the populace was, say, in the south in the 1920's lynching black men.
 
Old 11-21-2011, 07:19 AM
 
Location: SW MO
23,593 posts, read 37,394,969 times
Reputation: 29336
Quote:
Originally Posted by rimmerama View Post
Nice idea, but civil disobedience comes with it the expectation of getting arrested because you are cognizantly breaking the law to make a point.

Rule of law is for suckers, the true hallmark of a free society is understanding that the law applies to other people, not yourself. Wonder if NullGeo would be saying this if the moral authority of the populace was, say, in the south in the 1920's lynching black men.
More like the true hallmark of anarchy. There's a huge difference between an expectation of arrest and being assaulted with OC spray.
 
Old 11-21-2011, 07:49 AM
 
7,150 posts, read 10,866,083 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by rimmerama View Post
lol

MOTHER****ER!MOTHER****ER!MOTHER****ER!MOTHER****E R!MOTHER****ER!MOTHER****ER!MOTHER****ER!MOTHER*** *ER!MOTHER****ER!MOTHER****ER!MOTHER****ER!MOTHER* ***ER!MOTHER****ER!MOTHER****ER!MOTHER****ER!MOTHE R****ER!MOTHER****ER!MOTHER****ER!MOTHER****ER!MOT HER****ER!MOTHER****ER!MOTHER****ER!MOTHER****ER!M OTHER****ER!MOTHER****ER!MOTHER****ER!MOTHER****ER !MOTHER****ER!MOTHER****ER!MOTHER****ER!MOTHER**** ER!MOTHER****ER!



So how should the police have gone about arresting them? Their arms were interlinked, because the protesters knew they were breaking the law, and would ultimately be arrested.

I'm just curious what the alternative is, since you have stated physical force isn't acceptable to effect an arrest in this circumstance - since you seem to have the answer...
Beside the fact that police arrest protestors all the time without pepper-spraying them in the face or other violence -- why did these protestors need to be arrested? Because "authority" said so? Civil disobedience occurs when authority exceeds its mandates ... mandates which, in our society in particular, are created by concensus of the citizens -- not by dictate policy of a "ruling class"
Quote:
Originally Posted by rimmerama View Post
Nice idea, but civil disobedience comes with it the expectation of getting arrested because you are cognizantly breaking the law to make a point.

Rule of law is for suckers, the true hallmark of a free society is understanding that the law applies to other people, not yourself. Wonder if NullGeo would be saying this if the moral authority of the populace was, say, in the south in the 1920's lynching black men.
Civil disobedience does not assume arrest at all. Those involved acknowledge that arrest may be one outcome. Another outcome, for example, would be -- and sometimes is -- that authority recognizes it has exceeded its popular social mandate in a situation, and backs the f*%K off to reassess the appropriate application of true service and value to the community that has entrusted them with their duties.

And finally, your attempt at equating moral authority with an 'A Priori' act of moral depravity [of the first order], lynching, is not even specious ... it is an obvious attempt to ridicule me ... for which you would need to be an actually mature and worldly, experienced individual with more than mere classroom education. The concept -- and reality -- of moral authority is based on self-evident, common-sense social behaviors.
 
Old 11-21-2011, 08:28 AM
 
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 9,655,150 times
Reputation: 2622
When I got out of the Navy decades ago, the GI Bill gave me at first, $220 per month, then a raise to $270 per month.
Community College was free
The State University was about $15.00 per unit.

I could afford to attend and graduate and live, on that meager income.

The state of California understood at that time, the more people you got through college, the more people would have jobs that paid better than without that education. And the state would get more tax money.

The state picked up 100% of CC and 90% of state university, and got their money back.

Today California state university tuition is very high. The state is only picking up 40% of the cost of that tuition.

The net effect is to limit the number of people who can attend college, and , get those good jobs, that would return tax money to the state.

Can any Veteran today afford to attend a California University on the GI Bill?

What was once the best network of public universities in the world is tanking.

Cal Poly tuition is $23,000 per year, and just got a 9% increase.

By contrast, tuition at the University of Hawaii for a California resident is about $8,000.

University of Nevada resident tuition is $2,838 out of state is 6,797

Is a California State University Education 3-4 times better?
 
Old 11-21-2011, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Whiteville Tennessee
8,262 posts, read 18,453,524 times
Reputation: 10148
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
More like the true hallmark of anarchy. There's a huge difference between an expectation of arrest and being assaulted with OC spray.
I think anarchy is on the way. Sort of a French Revolution anarchy. Since the only people who seem to have the ear of those making policy is the few with all the $$$, anarchy just may be what we need. I also think that if congress tries to balance the economy on the backs of senior citizens ie; Medicaid and Social Security,the dumping of tea into Boston Harbor will look like a Sunday picnic. They cant pepper spray everyone.
 
Old 11-21-2011, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Rhode Island
9,260 posts, read 14,834,877 times
Reputation: 10284
To all those posters calling the protesting students "brats":

I wonder what you would have called the citizens who dumped the tea in Boston's harbor- back in the day- and torched the British ships in RI's port? (These students were protesting very peacefully in comparison).
 
Old 11-21-2011, 08:50 AM
 
7,150 posts, read 10,866,083 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt. Dan View Post
I think anarchy is on the way. Sort of a French Revolution anarchy. Since the only people who seem to have the ear of those making policy is the few with all the $$$, anarchy just may be what we need. I also think that if congress tries to balance the economy on the backs of senior citizens ie; Medicaid and Social Security,the dumping of tea into Boston Harbor will look like a Sunday picnic. They cant pepper spray everyone.
Lmao ... do I recognize you from Haight Street, '67? I was in uniform ... just home from Vietnam ... you handed me a joint and said, "... welcome home, hoss ... wanna go to a protest march?"
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