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Old 11-29-2011, 12:48 AM
 
Location: anywhere but Seattle
1,082 posts, read 2,552,870 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy View Post
California : More people leaving than moving in
Good! This is a trend I wholeheartedly support.

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Old 11-29-2011, 12:51 AM
 
2,311 posts, read 3,497,149 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evergraystate View Post
Good! This is a trend I wholeheartedly support.

As do I .. It will be great for business' profit margins, the U.S economic recovery, and the financial well being of those that do...

It will give those that stay some breathing room and result in hopefully lower home enslavement values so they can live a better life .. Win win for everyone.
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Old 12-01-2011, 07:06 PM
 
1,271 posts, read 2,587,687 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy View Post
Yep, the valley is turning out real gems from all these nerds as of late :



B.T.W - To throw contrast at your remarks .... I am one of those nerds in Palo Alto making $100k+ .. Masters degree from the top University in America in my major ... The b.s logic you used is what attracted me but it sure as hell wont keep me here... You can attract people all you want... However, once people figure out its a sham and leave .. you're s.o.l
It would seem the least productive are staying behind and the ultra wealthy.. California's middle class is eroding.. if you think that spells good for this state in the long run, I got a bullet train to sell you.

You continuously speak as though you are far removed from the workers you comment on... Most are pissing away their youth in caves working 10-12 hours hoping to create some janky start-up to pitch to j6p in hopes of getting rich (many failing) . Running around as grown boys living with roommates well into their 30s trying to strike it rich in order to afford a shack on the corner.....Some paying exorbitant amounts in rent reaching their mid 30s barely having enough to buy a house in a decent city/school district. Your reflection on the small quantity of uber rich that prey on such fodder doesn't scale and isn't quite frankly what you can build a successful state on.. The recent tech IPOs centered out of the valley speak for themselves... As do companies being smart, understanding talent is everywhere, and having offices all over America/World.

More on the valley gems :
Zynga Company Reviews | Glassdoor

Cons
Poor Leaders, very fast pace, no life outside of Zynga. Work many hours for nothing in return. Everyone is miserable there and just waiting to get rich. Its a total joke!
Everyone is working to throw everyone under the bus! Its the strangest place I have ever worked. A bunch of psycos!

"You'll work 8-18 hours per day 5-7 days per week
Company leaders demand creativity of employees after overworking them, and ignores most ideas that don't follow the same technique/code base that most of their games currently use.
Not much of a social life
Coworkers are grumpy because they've been overworked"

"Poor leadership and communication. Awful work-life balance."

"Being told by my manager that if i am not at home sleeping, then i am here working. That is how i was welcomed to the team."

"Poor Leaders, very fast pace, no life outside of Zynga. Work many hours for nothing in return. Everyone is miserable there and just waiting to get rich. Its a total joke!"

"One of the company values is something called 'Zynga Speed', which means accepting that quality will be sacrificed and long hours will be expected, over and over again. For employees aged over 25 this means your years of experience in your field will be routinely ignored; just to get the job done, you will be expected to abandon just about every principle you have learned as a skilled professional."

"You're basically forced to work 60-80 hour weeks."

"Long hours even when there is no real deadline.
Insane micro management all the way from CEO down"

Yeah, this is wonderland ...
Glassdoor reviews are Epic, I actually read them all the time. Tesla has some good reviews, sounds similar to Zynga.

Thing is I just did my daily job search on Indeed and Linkedin, still not seeing a big decline in jobs in the tech field in and around the Bay Area and or elsewhere in CA. If there is a wealth of talent and qualified people, then they surely are not able to fill the available positions unless it's all HR fluff to populate the resume pool?

I wish these companies would relocate to South Florida and save me the trouble. I'm hoping the Google Motorola deal will make that happen, but it may be too late.

Where are you planning on going if you hate it there?
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Old 12-01-2011, 07:36 PM
 
2,311 posts, read 3,497,149 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blauskies View Post
Glassdoor reviews are Epic, I actually read them all the time. Tesla has some good reviews, sounds similar to Zynga.
Glassdoor reviews, wsj/every media outlet you can search , first hand knowledge, conversations in bars/coffee shops, friends, industry and common knowledge... People are typically working long/stressful hours in the bay area. There are exceptions but it is hardly a norm to work regular hours.

If you don't live in the bay area, it will be kind of hard to fully detail the gamut of things that were lightly touched upon...

Quote:
Originally Posted by blauskies View Post
Thing is I just did my daily job search on Indeed and Linkedin, still not seeing a big decline in jobs in the tech field in and around the Bay Area and or elsewhere in CA. If there is a wealth of talent and qualified people, then they surely are not able to fill the available positions unless it's all HR fluff to populate the resume pool?
I'm not following your commentary .. What are you trying to say?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blauskies View Post
I wish these companies would relocate to South Florida and save me the trouble. I'm hoping the Google Motorola deal will make that happen, but it may be too late.

Where are you planning on going if you hate it there?
I am guessing you are from South Florida? I am too ..
Hard chance they'd relocate to South Florida.. Orlando and other more northern cities would get a piece of the action way before South Florida would.. There are many reasons for this.....

There will be many layoffs in the Google/Motorola merger .. Although there are many locations in South Florida related to Motorola, they mainly have to do w/ sales and taping into the Latin America / Latin markets.. There aren't a lot of Motorolla dev jobs in South Florida.

I don't hate it here. I am realistically reflecting on the avg. conditions here which are no longer suited for my goals/life changes. I am looking at going back Orlando, FL. Have already eyeballed some homes that I looking at making cash offers on. Job opportunities are already available. I have done several visits/on the ground research ... Am generally familiar .. and have covered a great deal of the city's forward development plans. I feel it is a city on the rise and want to get in somewhat on the ground floor. UCF is at the center of the city and is a rising good University. Bio/health campuses are being built.. There are many things to like.

In all, I am reflecting that a job isn't everything ... Especially if it commands so much of your time (away from family and the o' so popular amazing destination you live in). Sucks even further is if you spend on that time on it , and the environment you live in sucks everything you make from it dry. Lower COL ... Less money .. Less taxes (given a future in which they will be on the rise).. When resources get tight again in a 2nd wave downturn, many things will be changing...

Today, for many companies, a HQ is only a symbol and can detract from the fact that companies are global and physically located all over the U.S and world as is talent/qualified people. As time moves forward, this 'expansion' and diversification of presence increases not decreases ... In many ways this (obvious trend) speaks to how the future is in many ways different from the past and established norms. Some people live in the past/established norms and expect things to always be the same while others adapt to reality/change it and acknowledge their influence/other's influences on the ever changing nature of society.
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Old 12-01-2011, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Vancouver, WA
8,201 posts, read 16,631,806 times
Reputation: 9437
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy View Post
...
I don't hate it here. I am realistically reflecting on the avg. conditions here which are no longer suited for my goals/life changes. I am looking at going back Orlando, FL. Have already eyeballed some homes that I looking at making cash offers on. Job opportunities are already available. I have done several visits/on the ground research ... Am generally familiar .. and have covered a great deal of the city's forward development plans. I feel it is a city on the rise and want to get in somewhat on the ground floor. UCF is at the center of the city and is a rising good University. Bio/health campuses are being built.. There are many things to like.

In all, I am reflecting that a job isn't everything ... Especially if it commands so much of your time (away from family and the o' so popular amazing destination you live in). Sucks even further is if you spend on that time on it , and the environment you live in sucks everything you make from it dry. Lower COL ... Less money .. Less taxes (given a future in which they will be on the rise).. When resources get tight again in a 2nd wave downturn, many things will be changing...
Ok, so if you are from FL, know it well, like it, can afford a house there And have a potential job lined up, then why not do it? I'm not being facetious, it just seems like you are generally unhappy here in CA. And when you express your frustration it makes one wonder what's the point of staying, I mean really?

Although I also work in IT I'm not working in the pressure cooker of the SV. I know many who have/are and some like it while others don't. That lifestyle takes its toll. You live to work, and work and then work some more. Where's the work life balance in that? Although I could do it I wouldn't. Life's too short. With all those hours you get shortchanged in enjoying life and the better aspects of CA - short and extended vacations throughout the state. The Only benefit to it is a financial incentive with the potential of hitting it big with stock options - the golden carrot which many pursue.

CA is definately not for everyone. I remember when I was leaving CO and moving back to CA ppl there thought I was crazy. You have to really want to live here and enjoy its benefits or its not worth the higher price of admission. And if you don't have strong family/friend ties here it makes it harder to remain through difficult times such as these. Even during good times the SV lifestyle burns ppl out. Though there ar exceptions to this rule. I have a friend at Cisco now who has a family and works decent hours for example. He's a very senior level engineer so that may play a part.

Derek

Last edited by MtnSurfer; 12-01-2011 at 08:55 PM..
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Old 12-01-2011, 09:16 PM
 
Location: Near L.A.
4,108 posts, read 10,775,354 times
Reputation: 3444
I don't know if this will mean anything to you all as a new California transplant myself, but here we go:

I am a yuppie, but just by the definition of "young professional." Not the yuppie that is hot (say, 1-10 years) out of Stanford, Berkeley, UCLA, or some prestigious East Coast institution that makes $100-200K/year, drives a luxury sedan, looks "perfect" and has no manners. Unfortunately, that yuppie is all too common, I've already noticed, in California cities.

Yes, I came to California to advance my career b/c there are plenty of opportunities abundant here, and I work hard. But I'm also here to enjoy the scenery, hike, camp, explore San Francisco, bike along the bay, walk on the quiet beach solo at 4:00pm, etc. Oh, not to mention the abundance of beautiful Asian women to check out! That's the laid back California I make for myself. And laid back California still exists once you get 60-90 minutes away from the major cities; even in the Bay Area, you can find such areas in Stinson Beach and Half Moon Bay. It's just sometimes hard to believe there's "laid back" when you are working long hours only to hear horns honking on the way home in 20 MPH traffic.

So, what say I? Send the snobby yuppies and hyper-b**ch gold-digging/soccer mom/must always look "perfect" middle-aged women out of the state. Let Phoenix, Miami, DC, Boston, NYC, or Chicago have them. Then we can enjoy our commutes (relatively more) almost honk free!!
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Old 12-01-2011, 09:22 PM
 
2,311 posts, read 3,497,149 times
Reputation: 1223
Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnSurfer View Post
Ok, so if you are from FL, know it well, like it, can afford a house there And have a potential job lined up, then why not do it? I'm not being facetious, it just seems like you are generally unhappy here in CA. And when you express your frustration it makes one wonder what's the point of staying, I mean really?
So, i'm clear ... Stating the harsh realities of California as opposed to the continued pom'-pom' advertisement that is pitched about it is an aside from my personal actions/optimization therein. The realities will still exist will they not?

I have stated several times when I had optimally planned on leaving.... That is a date in 2012 due to stock options and lots of other personal things.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnSurfer View Post
Although I also work in IT I'm not working in the pressure cooker of the SV. I know many who have/are and some like it while others don't. That lifestyle takes its toll. You live to work, and work and then work some more. Where's the work life balance in that? Although I could do it I wouldn't. Life's too short. With all those hours you get shortchanged in enjoying life and the better aspects of CA - short and extended vacations throughout the state. The Only benefit to it is a financial incentive with the potential of hitting it big with stock options - the golden carrot which many pursue.
Passionate about your work (for a spell)? Maybe it takes time (a couple of years) to 'wake up'.... For many, there is no balance.. For many, they don't do this there whole lives.. Making big and fast cash while young, if you don't blow it all can have compounding benefits in the future. A strategy I came up w/ was striking a decent balance, enjoying all CA has to offer, working like crazy, saving/investing like crazy, stashing things away from California's taxation and exiting.. It's not something i want to sustain as you remark .. People get that (trust me) .. I know many people who have done the same..

Many techies who hit the road via optimal exits and served as some of the foundations for tech centers in Austin/Raleigh during their creation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnSurfer View Post
CA is definately not for everyone. I remember when I was leaving CO and moving back to CA ppl there thought I was crazy. You have to really want to live here and enjoy its benefits or its not worth the higher price of admission. And if you don't have strong family/friend ties here it makes it harder to remain through difficult times such as these. Even during good times the SV lifestyle burns ppl out. Though there ar exceptions to this rule. I have a friend at Cisco now who has a family and works decent hours for example. He's a very senior level engineer so that may play a part.

Derek
No place is for everyone.. 1+1 still equals 2 though.. i.e - If California has a $18 billion deficit this year.. California has an $18 billion deficit. If people generally work long crazy hours.. people generally work long crazy hours here..

I only remark to the many things not oft' remarked about. Messages are all around you and if they are true to the data/facts/reality, the messenger hardly matters... Emotions have nothing to do w/ state budget issues/work conditions/etc.

Higher prices can many times be drive by mania, bubbles, and 'hype'... So, it's important for people to be informed about the details of matters beyond glossy advertisements

Again, there is nothing wrong w/ commenting on the conditions of things true to the realities. It has nothing to do w/ hate or emotions.

These aren't difficult times in tech, the industry is booming and so is the compensation. Happy as a peach and if I had to do it all over again, I'd still have come to California.

Last edited by yeahthatguy; 12-01-2011 at 09:31 PM..
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Old 12-01-2011, 09:28 PM
 
2,311 posts, read 3,497,149 times
Reputation: 1223
Quote:
Originally Posted by EclecticEars View Post
I don't know if this will mean anything to you all as a new California transplant myself, but here we go:

I am a yuppie, but just by the definition of "young professional." Not the yuppie that is hot (say, 1-10 years) out of Stanford, Berkeley, UCLA, or some prestigious East Coast institution that makes $100-200K/year, drives a luxury sedan, looks "perfect" and has no manners. Unfortunately, that yuppie is all too common, I've already noticed, in California cities.

Yes, I came to California to advance my career b/c there are plenty of opportunities abundant here, and I work hard. But I'm also here to enjoy the scenery, hike, camp, explore San Francisco, bike along the bay, walk on the quiet beach solo at 4:00pm, etc. Oh, not to mention the abundance of beautiful Asian women to check out! That's the laid back California I make for myself. And laid back California still exists once you get 60-90 minutes away from the major cities; even in the Bay Area, you can find such areas in Stinson Beach and Half Moon Bay. It's just sometimes hard to believe there's "laid back" when you are working long hours only to hear horns honking on the way home in 20 MPH traffic.

So, what say I? Send the snobby yuppies and hyper-b**ch gold-digging/soccer mom/must always look "perfect" middle-aged women out of the state. Let Phoenix, Miami, DC, Boston, NYC, or Chicago have them. Then we can enjoy our commutes (relatively more) almost honk free!
What makes you think any other state wants em? Seems they are happy here....and don't worry, many of 'those' yuppies have discovered the same things you have.
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Old 12-02-2011, 07:27 AM
 
1,271 posts, read 2,587,687 times
Reputation: 642
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy View Post

I'm not following your commentary .. What are you trying to say?
I'm saying that I see plenty of positions listed in the Bay Area and CA in general, more so then other parts of the US. This pertains to my field in Engineering and if there is indeed a big pool of qualified people living local, why do I have places like Apple, Intel and the like contacting me via Linkedin for possibly job opportunities? I know that the norm is people are less intrigued to pick up and move to the area based on the cost of living and so on.

Once upon a time I almost took a job in the Bay Area right after I graduated from College years ago, I had several companies that contacted me. I seriously considered a few but ultimately decided to not make the move. At the time I was amazed how aggressive the companies were, they almost seemed desperate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy View Post


I am guessing you are from South Florida? I am too ..
Hard chance they'd relocate to South Florida.. Orlando and other more northern cities would get a piece of the action way before South Florida would.. There are many reasons for this.....
I'm not originally from South Florida, but I'm currently in the Miami area, the market here is limited with little options. Many small start-ups in tech and Motorola spin-offs and also some bigger players Citrix, RIM, Foxconn, XM in Broward. RIM said they will grow, but I don't see that happening with they way things are currently going. It seems South Florida's future will be based on small companies. Problem is many of these players here are not hiring in my expertise and stability is in question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy View Post

I don't hate it here. I am realistically reflecting on the avg. conditions here which are no longer suited for my goals/life changes. I am looking at going back Orlando, FL. Have already eyeballed some homes that I looking at making cash offers on. Job opportunities are already available. I have done several visits/on the ground research ... Am generally familiar .. and have covered a great deal of the city's forward development plans. I feel it is a city on the rise and want to get in somewhat on the ground floor. UCF is at the center of the city and is a rising good University. Bio/health campuses are being built.. There are many things to like.
True there are more opportunities in Orlando, but one has to like Orlando first and that's one place I cannot seem to get into. I don't mind visiting typically for trade shows at the Convention Center, but to live there? Orlando and South Florida are so different, the landscape, weather and culture. Way more affordable though.
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Old 12-02-2011, 07:32 AM
 
1,271 posts, read 2,587,687 times
Reputation: 642
Quote:
Originally Posted by EclecticEars View Post
I don't know if this will mean anything to you all as a new California transplant myself, but here we go:

I am a yuppie, but just by the definition of "young professional." Not the yuppie that is hot (say, 1-10 years) out of Stanford, Berkeley, UCLA, or some prestigious East Coast institution that makes $100-200K/year, drives a luxury sedan, looks "perfect" and has no manners. Unfortunately, that yuppie is all too common, I've already noticed, in California cities.

Yes, I came to California to advance my career b/c there are plenty of opportunities abundant here, and I work hard. But I'm also here to enjoy the scenery, hike, camp, explore San Francisco, bike along the bay, walk on the quiet beach solo at 4:00pm, etc. Oh, not to mention the abundance of beautiful Asian women to check out! That's the laid back California I make for myself. And laid back California still exists once you get 60-90 minutes away from the major cities; even in the Bay Area, you can find such areas in Stinson Beach and Half Moon Bay. It's just sometimes hard to believe there's "laid back" when you are working long hours only to hear horns honking on the way home in 20 MPH traffic.

So, what say I? Send the snobby yuppies and hyper-b**ch gold-digging/soccer mom/must always look "perfect" middle-aged women out of the state. Let Phoenix, Miami, DC, Boston, NYC, or Chicago have them. Then we can enjoy our commutes (relatively more) almost honk free!!
They are here too, typically spotted driving BMW M3s with lot's of hair gel and are most often from NY/NJ the real elite usually reign from The Hamptons.

The "gold-digging/soccer mom/must always look "perfect" middle-aged woman" are too very common, but not just "middle-aged", plenty of other age groups.
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