CA's Middle Class Shrinking or Just Leaving? (San Jose: middle-class, how much)

[sjnative]

Report: California's middle class shrinks to below 50 percent - San Jose Mercury News

When reading this article, my thought was that the middle class was leaving, not shrinking.

There has been a continual exodus of the middle class from the SF Bay Area and from what I read on the LA and SD forums, those metros have also experienced an exodus which has been not only to OR and WA but also to the rest of the Intermountain West and the flyover states in general.

As well, the state has swelled with illegal immigrants who work in menial jobs and have lots of children, many of them living in the expensive SF and LA metros, so their arrival and mass reproduction has in and of itself swelled the ranks of the working class.

Middle class emigration + working class immigration = swelled lower class

As for the upper class, I don't sense that it has gotten any bigger- or has it?

Thoughts?

[winkosmosis]

I don't know about California, but in Texas the illegal immigrants aren't working class, they're far below working class. "Working class" usually implies middle and lower middle class.

[BayAreaHillbilly]

It's a double whammy. Superimposed on the well known decline of the middle class at the national level is a specific exodus here at the state level. As I noted on another thread, California is becoming a banana republic with a few diamonds in the rough. It's very, very sad.

[BayAreaHillbilly]

Originally Posted by sjnative

As for the upper class, I don't sense that it has gotten any bigger- or has it?

Thoughts?

It has gotten bigger and carved out a greater fraction of the overall population. The already-wealthy have traditionally moved here and continue to do so, meanwhile, immigrants with seed money (typically Asian) start businesses and become wealthy after arriving.

[ndfmnlf]

If middle class is defined as "that income group which clusters around the median of a normal distribution curve", then it is mathematically impossible for the middle class to ever shrink. The median will always be at the midpoint, or that point which divides the population into 2 equal halves. You might shift the curve to the right (more rich people), and the median will be shifted accordingly, but it will still be at the midpoint. Shifting the curve to the left (more poor people) will do the same thing to the median.

[yeahthatguy]

Access to a middle class life here is being shrunk by a booming illegal population that drives wages down for blue collar work work ... and by an ever increasing COL and tax structure ... Please take note of the continual things that govt. in this state does to keep the poor living many times above that of the middle class.. The middle class can't even afford homes but you constantly see the govt. here taxing the snot out of them and throwing it in world class structures to house the poor at 3-4x below market rate prices... This subsidization drives prices even higher....

This in turn causes many Americans trying to lead a middle class life to leave. As many know, I have been saying this for the longest time on this forum and many die hard apologist for California try to shut me up. I came here for the California dream that has long past. I work in the heart of the valley, have a degree from one of the top Universities of America and make towards $125k w/ bonus included. I'm leaving in 2012 after 4-5 years of being in California .. The reason : access to a middle class life is dwindling in this state whereas it is becoming increasingly available in other states in America. I love California. I love the weather, the geography, and the people. But there is no way in hell you can convince me, a well traveled American who has seen/lived in many places beyond this state in America and the world to stay here. I have seen/lived in other beautiful places that are much cheaper and can provide me w/ just as much enjoyment.. So, I say yet again... People parroting the same nonsense over and over about this state can keep it up... People are leaving ... I saw it some years back and put plans in motion to finally leave.... Keep it up and this state is going to be changed forever... My plans are already in place though.. I fought long and hard locally to nuke the tax hikes.. but it wasn't enough .. the trajectory of this state is not one that I want my newly formed family to subject to.

Further, many tech companies are being intelligent and are opening up offices across the U.S in cheaper tech hubs : austin, Tx .. Raleigh, NC come to mind .. I know many co-workers who left to these places at the height of the housing bubble ... and many who have recently left to these locations to pursue a more widely available middle class life .. The salty Californians on my team who often interface with them will joke sometimes.. How is that big house in X,Y,Z .. Whereas they have a home no bigger than what your avg. Californian has here .. Except it costs 2-3x as less .. Middle class described as : $44k - $150k .. The upper end is a nice sweet spot for tech workers ... When you discovery homes cost $600-700k in a nice area and, given how much you make, how much tax you are subject to .. You start to rethink life in California.. I know many people who spend 5-10 years here.. having a blast while saving up and leave once it is time to start a family and buy a house.


Is what it is .. Many others are commenting on it now .. So, I will probably try to speed up my plans before word gets out and tarnishes my plans to buy a house cash in the state/area I am seeking.

[TexasGuy22]

middle class Californians are fleeing to Texas, where they can continue to live a middle class lifestyle

[Zembonez]

California suffered a net loss of 129,000 more people in 2010 than those who moved there according to news stories. I seriously doubt they were the lower income people receiving handouts... or the illegals.

We have a bunch of them living here now... constantly telling us how great California is while they live in Texas.

[hsw]

Define "middle class"

Suspect if one examines IRS tax return data one will find middle income group today in US or CA or NYC is just as prolific as back in '70s-'90s....the overpaid UAW worker of MI, OH, etc of 20th century has merely been replaced by the >$100K/yr illiterate who works at some unionized make-work gvt or healthcare or education job w/dubious net productivity for the economy

And interest rates are far lower than in '70s-'90s, so mtg pmts are damn cheap (and housing depreciation and cheap junk food/cars/computers make COL rather deflationary) and China and latest tech allow the middle-incomes to buy junk they don't need and really can't afford from WMT, AMZN, TGT, etc for far less than they had paid for same junk from Japan, Taiwan, etc back in late 20th century

Unlike pre-Net era, any smart kid today can more easily figure out how to rise from the middle-income ranks to being part of affluent (or rather wealthy) at a young age....no place on planet shows as much upward mobility as does SiliconValley, which has attracted the smartest and most ambitious crowd from all over world for past 50yrs

The welfare crowd anywhere on planet tends to not to want to look in mirror to explain why they and their kids lack upward mobility...own DNA, values and (lack of) personal responsibility are truths which are far harder to admit, as opposed to either envy or blaming "the system" or evil rich folks...

[esmith143]

Originally Posted by winkosmosis

I don't know about California, but in Texas the illegal immigrants aren't working class, they're far below working class. "Working class" usually implies middle and lower middle class.

No.

The social hierarchy is defined in sociology as follows:

* Underclass (poor, homeless, criminals)
* Working class (aka proletariat, aka blue-collar)
* Lower middle class (craftsmen, white-collar workers without college degrees), often called simply "middle class"
* Upper middle class (educated professionals, aka "professional class")
* Rich

Middle class is a function of the labor market. As such, it has nothing to do with people moving to Texas or to Intermountain West or wherever. As long as there are middle-class jobs, there are middle-class people. Most illegal immigrants displace working-class whites, but they have nothing to do with existence or non-existence of middle-class jobs. Some illegal immigrants do displace (lower-)middle-class whites, and so they become middle class themselves.

If middle class is defined as "that income group which clusters around the median of a normal distribution curve",

That's not how it is defined. It is typical for all members of the middle class to have above-median incomes. In the United States, upper & lower middle classes run from the 55th percentile to the 98th percentile on the income curve. In Russia, middle class starts somewhere around the 75th percentile.