Fighter jets scrambled over CA after plane loses contact (house, living in)

[Bulldogdad]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Yeah, that makes sense.

Still, its shocking how unprepared we were.

If by unprepared you mean not having a contingency plan for just this type of guerrilla action on our own soil then you'd be correct. If you mean unprepared as far as having the military assets to respond to that threat I would disagree.

Think that's bad just wait until a dirty bomb goes off and closes down an entire city like New York for 100 years.

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

I remember reading articles back in 2001 which stated that on 9/11, there were only 14 fighter jets protecting the entire country. Yikes.

I certainly hope there are more than that now.

Hmmm ... someone has either mis-written or mis-read something somewhere .

I wasn't with fighter squadrons, I was in (Navy) combat air rescue (yeah, I know I'm old ... it was back in the days of bi-planes and the Red Barron, blah blah) but I am still obsessed with the adrenaline rush so I pay a bit of attention even today. The Air National Guard alone has 36 fighter squadrons all around the country ... there are quite a few more regular Air Force fighter squadrons than the Air Guard has ... Air Guard and Air Force being essentially the same service and always operational at the ready. Each squadron has multiple aircraft. Could be 4 or 5 ... could be 24 or anything in between. My squadron kept 12 in operations at all time, utilizing about 20 pilots. In actual war operations we were in the air with some of those aircraft at all times 12 hours a day / 7 days a week ... there were no days off. Even in peacetime at home on U.S. soil, most aircraft are at the ready, and there are pilots and crew on stand-by at all times. There are also Marine and Navy air units both on land and at sea at the ready 24/7. Training and practice is ongoing.

In addition to fighters there are many many many other types of defense and attack aircraft. I worked with both light attack and helicopter squadrons in both search and rescue and search and destroy ... we went out loaded for bear at all times regardless of the mission ... lots of attack aircraft are not air-intercept fighters -- yet are also used for a wide range of defense.

Lot of gasoline. A lot of defense available. But that said, 100's of squadrons with 10 planes or more at the ready might be able to launch 15% or 20% with ordinance on very short notice -- yet that many planes don't really cover a lot of the miles of airspace over the country. Fast as today's jets are, it takes time to get to your target over such a big piece of real estate as is the USA. Logistical planning is key.

[native56]

Launching fighter jets because a Cessna 172 lost contact? That's a amall, 4 seater airplane. What are they afraid of? I should think any big rig traveling the freeway can do more damage than a 172. Our sissified culture demands any expense to deflect any risk - no matter how small.

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by native56

Launching fighter jets because a Cessna 172 lost contact? That's a amall, 4 seater airplane. What are they afraid of? I should think any big rig traveling the freeway can do more damage than a 172. Our sissified culture demands any expense to deflect any risk - no matter how small.

A big rig can certainly carry more explosives than a Cessna ... but a Cessna (or any aircraft) can uniquely zero down on a target most anyplace. I remember one of my first reactions to 9/11 was that all small private aircraft were now going to have to be considered potential weapons. Indeed, one nut flew a Piper-Cherokee into the IRS offices in Austin, Texas in 2010.

I note that the fighters in this scramble were from Fresno -- there's Lemoore Naval Air Station, where I was based for a time with two squadrons before deployments ... but this would almost certainly be from the 144th Air National Guard Fighter Squadron there. That's what they do. The guys got a rush -- and they loved it -- though secretly wishing they'd intercepted a nut case and had to take him out in mid-air ... There's little, if anything in life, that can compare to the power of air assault.

[native56]

Scrambling fighter jets against small planes flying in a metropolitan area is a waste of money. All it does is to make a few sissies feel better. A small plane leaving Santa Monica is only six miles from LAX. That's three minutes in a Cessna 172. No way to stop your nut from going the wrong way. No time to scramble jets either. And radio contact doesn't do any good. The pilot flies the plane not the radio.

Or coming from El Monte into Santa Monica small planes fly only a couple of miles from downtown LA. Once again radio contact won't change anything nor will scrambled jets make any difference.

But the public has been conditioned to think that all tradgedy can be averted. So stories like this one make people feel good. The only sure solution to the errant plane is to ban general aviation in metro areas. And might as well ban those big rigs too. Then we can all sit home feeling perfectly safe.

The world has risk. Living has risk. Accept it.

[nullgeo]

You miss one of the main points of my blather:
"they" (air defense) fly all the time day and night anyway -- and this is really part of their "practice" culture. They love it. They spend the money regardless -- a TON of it -- no, wait, let me restate that: a bazillion tons of money anyway everyday.

It's actually not a part of a culture of fear at all ... it's a part of a culture of thrills and profit for the military industrial complex. Any excuse will do. And when there is no excuse?: they fly anyway ... "training and preparedness".

Have a beer. Go fishing. Your citizen whistle-blowing can't be heard over "the sound of freedom", as the signs around military air bases say.

[native56]

You miss the point. The point is that you guys have succeeded in creating a climate of fear and dependency in our culture. People think that government (or a lawyer) can protect them against any misfortune.

In fact there is no way to protect against your nut in the small plane. Except to remove all private planes from the skies. Perhaps Obama's DOT is working on that.

Meanwhile the fighter jets that you would have people think are protecting them cannot do so. They do not patrol the skies over LA. I have 1000 hours flying small planes in SoCal. Never seen a fighter jet over LA. They do their practice in the desert MOA's (military operation areas). Only time I've seen them near LA is when they return to Pt. Mugu.

But truth notwithstanding you would have people think that gvt can control anything. Can protect them against any calamity. Just hand over a few more tax bucks. And give up a few more liberties. I opted out of the x-ray machine on my last airling flight. Spent 45 minutes with my 15 year-old waiting for a pat down. That is the sort of result you can expect when you rely on government to protect you.

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by native56

You miss the point. The point is that you guys have succeeded in creating a climate of fear and dependency in our culture. People think that government (or a lawyer) can protect them against any misfortune.

In fact there is no way to protect against your nut in the small plane. Except to remove all private planes from the skies. Perhaps Obama's DOT is working on that.

Meanwhile the fighter jets that you would have people think are protecting them cannot do so. They do not patrol the skies over LA. I have 1000 hours flying small planes in SoCal. Never seen a fighter jet over LA. They do their practice in the desert MOA's (military operation areas). Only time I've seen them near LA is when they return to Pt. Mugu.

But truth notwithstanding you would have people think that gvt can control anything. Can protect them against any calamity. Just hand over a few more tax bucks. And give up a few more liberties. I opted out of the x-ray machine on my last airling flight. Spent 45 minutes with my 15 year-old waiting for a pat down. That is the sort of result you can expect when you rely on government to protect you.

Moi? You think I'm one of those military-industrial complex "guys"? Hey man, I didn't create any climate of anything ... I just did my time as enlisted aircrew ... what I said was: "they" are all over the place.

But can our air defenses protect us from such threat? You betcha ... it's never 100%, but I'd bet on the Air Force next time in a similar scenario. Small private plane? Nah, not so much, unless the intent was known in advance through intelligence.

Don't see fighters over the cities? Yeah, mostly not ... they don't want to cause fear, curiosity, or irritation -- and, urban airspace is fairly congested already. And urban air space is not where threat would be intercepted in most cases. Engagement would be away from congestion.

"They" don't care how many yahoos think as you do. "They" will fly around as much as they want (-- which is constantly --) spending money on gas and buying new planes and ordinance to play big-boy games with. "They" love blowing things up and "they" love making money. And "they" don't have any trouble finding guys and gals to work for them. Greatest job in the world. I did it only for a few years until I took serious damage. 43 years later I miss it every day -- even though I think it's all about stupid -- just as you do.

You're not in charge (in case you hadn't noticed), "they" are. "They" always have been and you never will be. So take a pole down to the pond and enjoy life.

[user_id]

Originally Posted by 18Montclair

Interesting to see how ready they are in case something more serious should occur.

Exactly....we have to protect California from an Alien invasion.

[nullgeo]

As I recall, there was an "alien invasion" by air on Dec. 7th, 1941 ...
and another on September 11, 2001 ...
There have been many air assaults against many countries over the years --
including some assaults made by the U.S. against other nations.
This is why air defense is big business.
Without its presence, there would be many more attempts.

There are also many other functions provided by air readiness -- including disaster early-warning, disaster response, and search and rescue. None of these functions are addressed by private companies ... just military (and Air Force auxiliary: the CAP).

In anticipation of your appreciative thanks: You're welcome.