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Old 01-11-2012, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Quimper Peninsula
1,981 posts, read 3,134,524 times
Reputation: 1771

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post


Calumniating 96% of priests who have never been accused of these abominations comes easy to you.

.

This is true plenty of good individuals choose to be priests, however some are not... They are people after all...

To me the shame that must be cast on all Catholics is the cover up and denial.... Those are dangerous habits to "look the other way" on subjects of abuse and rape... What does that teach people about rape and abuse????

Being from Wisconsin, I am quite familiar with the whole shameful thing and the archdiocese attempted cover up for years and years.... Pope Benedict and the Vatican did not defrock the priest! He is still a priest after molesting 200 children that have come forward so far!.. The law suit still goes on.

A bad priest is one thing, but the refusal of the Church to deal with it shames the very foundation of the institution..
IMHO

 
Old 01-12-2012, 10:52 AM
 
1,664 posts, read 3,938,650 times
Reputation: 1878
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueTimbers View Post
Being from Wisconsin, I am quite familiar with the whole shameful thing and the archdiocese attempted cover up for years and years.... Pope Benedict and the Vatican did not defrock the priest! He is still a priest after molesting 200 children that have come forward so far!.. The law suit still goes on.

A bad priest is one thing, but the refusal of the Church to deal with it shames the very foundation of the institution..
IMHO
A Huge AMEN!!!!!!

IMHO, a first time convicted child molester gets chipped and shipped to a small windowless cell,,,forever.
 
Old 01-12-2012, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Oroville, California
3,477 posts, read 6,461,004 times
Reputation: 6787
I was born in Butte County, so I didn't move here to hide from the rest of the state. I'm socially liberal and tend to support many of the tenets (if not the methods) of the "Occupy" movement. Not everyone in this part of the state is like the O.P. (and there is no "State of Jefferson"). Please don't judge all the people in far Northern California too harshly.
 
Old 01-12-2012, 01:33 PM
 
7,150 posts, read 10,833,676 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
I know it's hard for someone who makes up his own rules in life, but for the sake of conversation how about trying to follow an argument rather than looking for openings to create another straw man?
Hilarious as always ... you are consistent. It apparently offends you that someone is capable of living a very ethical and responsible life of service by his own rules, without having to follow the sadistic dictates of a bunch of chubby bald guys wearing embroidered robes and funny hats, who interpret a book of fiction to support their own self-aggrandizing society based on humiliating common men, convincing them they are "born broken" in sin, while protecting sinful cultures within their own class.

News flash: I'm not responding to you "to follow [your] arguments" ... I'm responding to your specious bigotry and sophistries, one after another.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
It doesn't matter how many Catholics or non-Catholics commit mortal sins, or whether you commit them, or whether I commit them. What matters is whether an act is, by definition, objectively sinful. Torturing cats, murder, and sodomy are mortal sins according to Catholic doctrine and therefore there is nothing "extreme" about linking them when discussing public policy. Artificial birth control is also sinful, whether practiced by 99% of Catholics or just 1%. A moral code for grown ups is something better than "but Mom, everyone else is doing it".
Again you define "sin" ... as if the world must agree that your definitions are a-priori ... because the men in funny hats said so, I presume.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
As a doctrinaire atheist, you have no basis for declaring anything to be right or wrong beyond your own two-bit opinion. You don't believe in sin, so for you "anything goes". Fine. But normal people who have outgrown their teenage rebellion phase derive their morality from their religious faith. That's not extreme at all. I'd go hunt for a relevant Gallup poll but I'm not going to do your homework for you.
Who said I was a "doctrinaire atheist"? There you go again, declaring definitions and rules for the rest of us to follow. As I've said before: "In your face". Who said I believe in "anything goes"? Your definition of me is not supported by my life story -- which you say you have researched -- in which case: "In your face" applies again.

"Teenage rebellion phase"? phbbbt ... let me know when you get past the pre-school phase of talking to invisible friends. And what am I rebelling from? My wives, as "recovering Catholics", might be accused of rebelliousness, but, since I never had religion, what am I rebelling against? Your authorities? The authorities of your men in funny hats and robes? They've never been my masters with their whips and chains. You're welcome to them if you love that "whip me! o' whip me!" relationship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
No, I quoted Washington because I believe what he wrote to be true, and also as evidence against your absurd claim that such views are "extreme" and "unpatriotic".
That's what I said: you quoted it because it conveniently reflects your belief -- out of the context of George Washington's being a deist at best and oft considered an atheist. You love quotations, I note ... you can look up lots of G. Washington quotes on atheist websites. Knock yourself out. Oh, but that wouldn't support your arguments. Notice I haven't thrown any quotes around? Pointless exercise. Lots of people say sh*t that can be regurgitated speciously. Take the bible for instance ....... then again, let's not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
You are truly a man without shame. Calumniating 96% of priests who have never been accused of these abominations comes easy to you. Is this how you return the gracious treatment you received from the kind priests of your acquaintance? With friends like you, who needs enemies indeed.
Ah, now my former priest acquaintances are "gracious" in your mind whereas before they were "spineless fools". But anyway, the fact is that I didn't accuse 96% of all priests of anything. You said that Catholicism had many benefits ... I responded "yes, including access to innocent young boys in the vestry" ... which is a 100% true statement that doesn't accuse 96% of priests ... it correctly points out that priests of nefarious character have access to perversions in the vestry ... which they do, however many or few take advantage. But since you want to huff about it, I'll state my personal opinion, based on nothing more than gut, that a hell of a lot more than the 4% of priests you claim to have been accused, have been involved in nasty behavior.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
OK, Nullgeo, let's talk about you. Because that's what it always comes back to. Forgive me for not addressing every fact in your glowing autobiography. You're obviously fond of promoting your own personal qualities on C-D - yes, I've done a bit of homework - and it's clear that you enjoy your own company. I admit that it's quite possible that you have more education, culture, battle scars, life experiences, etc. than I do. Lots of people do and I'm happy to assume you are one of them. Of course none of this has anything to do with the topic at hand, but if you needed to hear that from me, there it is.
Why wouldn't I enjoy myself? I've lived a good, fruitful, and interesting life, including responsible and deep service to friends, family, communities, nation, and planet. Which bothers you because I have done so without the guidance of men in funny hats and robes in the vestries.

You love to argue concepts not your own without having lived with an independent and gracious mind and heart. Not my problem you are so limited. Keep making your sweeping declarations and definitions for the world ... some of us are looking for your experience to back up what you say. Perhaps you should get up off your poor bloody knees and take a walk in the real world.
 
Old 01-12-2012, 02:31 PM
 
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 9,624,497 times
Reputation: 2622
I read an interesting article the other day, a very high percentage of Americans do not consider themselves religious or atheist. The best definition was Spiritual Apathist. They just do not consider considering religious or spiritual matters worth considering.
 
Old 01-12-2012, 02:38 PM
 
7,150 posts, read 10,833,676 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeauCharles View Post
I was born in Butte County, so I didn't move here to hide from the rest of the state. I'm socially liberal and tend to support many of the tenets (if not the methods) of the "Occupy" movement. Not everyone in this part of the state is like the O.P. (and there is no "State of Jefferson"). Please don't judge all the people in far Northern California too harshly.
So noted. Point taken. No assumptions or connections made here. I love upstate California greatly. Spend lots of time there. Would hate to see it over run with nut-case, religious-right, zealots in robes and hats (and carrying guns), too. Why I suggested Nunavut to the OP -- IF the polar bears would have him (for lunch).)
 
Old 01-12-2012, 02:48 PM
 
7,150 posts, read 10,833,676 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
I read an interesting article the other day, a very high percentage of Americans do not consider themselves religious or atheist. The best definition was Spiritual Apathist. They just do not consider considering religious or spiritual matters worth considering.
Funny you should mention that:
Catholics in Crisis
Catholics in crisis - The Week
excepted:
<< It’s “the largest institutional crisis in centuries, possibly in church history,” says the National Catholic Reporter. Worldwide, the Roman Catholic Church now has 1.1 billion members, compared with 1.5 billion Muslims and 593 million Protestants. In the U.S., all the major denominations have seen their numbers decline in recent years, but the Catholic Church has taken the biggest hit. Since the 1960s, four American-born Catholics have left the church for every one who has converted, according to a 2009 Pew study. In 2008 alone, Catholic membership declined by 400,000. More than 1,000 parishes have closed since 1995, and the number of priests has fallen from about 49,000 to 40,000 during that same period. Some 3,400 Catholic parishes in the U.S. now lack a resident priest. “Catholicism is in decline across America,” says sociologist David Carlin. >>

Article goes on to say European abandonment of the church is even worse ... but bright spot in Africa ... I suggest the OP reconsider my first suggestion and forgo Nunavut for the Congo.

I wonder why people are abandoning the Catholic church?
Well, not to lose any sleep over it ... I have a feeling the answer will be forthcoming from the Pope of CD Forum soon. Perhaps his cry for a movement to the State of Jefferson will be the turn-around. Though I suspect it will merely prove to be another kind of movement generally reserved for daily ablutions.
 
Old 01-12-2012, 02:51 PM
 
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 9,624,497 times
Reputation: 2622
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeauCharles
I was born in Butte County, so I didn't move here to hide from the rest of the state. I'm socially liberal and tend to support many of the tenets (if not the methods) of the "Occupy" movement. Not everyone in this part of the state is like the O.P. (and there is no "State of Jefferson"). Please don't judge all the people in far Northern California too harshly.
So noted. Point taken. No assumptions or connections made here. I love upstate California greatly. Spend lots of time there. Would hate to see it over run with nut-case, religious-right, zealots in robes and hats (and carrying guns), too. Why I suggested Nunavut to the OP -- IF the polar bears would have him (for lunch).)
I lived at Buzzard's Roost, uphill from Whiskey Flats, east of Magalia for six years. My friends were all progressive sorts, we had a good time...
 
Old 01-12-2012, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
14,044 posts, read 27,101,372 times
Reputation: 7373
Thread has gone on long enough, discussion has gone far beyond being about California.
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