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Old 01-13-2012, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Quimper Peninsula
1,981 posts, read 3,134,524 times
Reputation: 1771

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Just for the gee wiz file, a 2x6 wall is about R19 with thermal loss due to studs maybe R14 or so...

Wood has an Rvalue of 1.25 per inch.. So a "little" 20 inch log is R25... Wood is good at resisting thermal transfer too... So swings from day to night are less.
** What really matters is the roof, heat loss is up.. and wall construction type does not matter on that. Built up michigan style roof can have R50+

Jefferson Rising-032.jpg

No need for anything more than linseed like on the cobb construction, or a water based sealer with a good hat and boots..


Homes built into a hill.. I do not know about warm climates, but in Minnesota we lived in one buried on three sides and exposed to the south... It was still cold clammy and dark..


* Please note I do not intend on building a log house in CA...and DO suscribe to nullgeo's, simple/functional idealism... Can not beat being out of doors..

Maybe a log sauna but that is about it...
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Old 01-13-2012, 01:11 PM
 
7,150 posts, read 10,833,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueTimbers View Post
Just for the gee wiz file, a 2x6 wall is about R19 with thermal loss due to studs maybe R14 or so...

Wood has an Rvalue of 1.25 per inch.. So a "little" 20 inch log is R25... Wood is good at resisting thermal transfer too... So swings from day to night are less.
** What really matters is the roof, heat loss is up.. and wall construction type does not matter on that. Built up michigan style roof can have R50+

Attachment 89704

No need for anything more than linseed like on the cobb construction, or a water based sealer with a good hat and boots..


Homes built into a hill.. I do not know about warm climates, but in Minnesota we lived in one buried on three sides and exposed to the south... It was still cold clammy and dark..


* Please not I do not intend on living in a log house in CA...and DO suscribe to nullgeo's, simple/functional idealism... Can not beat being out of doors..
Yes, pretty much on the same page with all this ... when I built my main cabin in the San Juans my walls were / are 6" thick timber, solid ... the code nazis allowed me an R-19 credit even though the actual R-value would be R-7.5 ... This extra credit (sounds like high-school civics class, no?) was allowed due to thermal mass advantages of wood under the log home codes, which are a separate set from prescriptive frame construction code. However, the nazis got me back in the roof design, not allowing me sufficient credit for my dirt roof to escape their requirement for R-35 up topsides ... which they wouldn't budge from because I have two Huge window walls east and south-facing for view and what little passive solar effect we get in the PNW ... how I ended up having to compromise etc. is a story that goes on and on so I'll spare everyone the details ... points are:
1. the log home codes do recognize the value of thermal mass qualities of wood over and above the R-values of wood
2. the nazis will find a way to get you anyway

Linseed oil is a longer story than "all you need" case closed ... it is a solution but not entirely without living ramifications of several kinds ... it's natural, but so are a lot of irritants ... and it attracts dust like a magnet to iron filings ... and the dust doesn't vacuum off either ... just gets dirtier and dirtier. Anyhow -- log home companies these days recommend and apply all kinds of sh*t that cracks me up given that the whole essential character of a log home is supposed to be "back to nature" kinda living.

"Back to nature" is a tent or a lean-to with a nice campfire.

Unfortunately, much as northern California is near-wilderness - and, in fact wilderness, for large parts -- the code nazis in California are really active. There are still many places in the country where, once away from urban counties, a guy can still throw out the codes and build as he sees fit ... California isn't one of those places.

And, where is user_id? I'm sure he is an expert in log home and other types of construction, as he is with everything else ... would be fun to get his input here, no?
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Old 01-13-2012, 01:18 PM
 
1,664 posts, read 3,938,650 times
Reputation: 1878
[quote=TrueTimbers;22526021]Problems with full scribe log (no chinking)? I agree, chinking is a big problem and maintenance nightmare, but full scribe, Swedish cope, done by a builder that is experienced will stand 500+ years with good "boots and hat"

Very very little good log construction these days. IMO log is meant to be a simple a simple square or rectangular structure and single story, no fancy corners... On must be able to consider settling around doors and windows, or you have big problems..

Couldn't agree with you more. The full scribe is the way to go , IF you were going to build a good log home. I personally have never built one. But , find the wood warmth inside and out compelling.

I will probably end up with the 2X6 walls with max. insulation. It is most cost effective and i have other thoughts that i want to test. I enjoy experimenting with construction. I built a home up in Gold Country and was flirting with passive solar qualities. Being a neophyte at the time it worked too well. In the winter we had to open the windows as it was too hot in January. We did solve the problems with solar shades and plantings. The masonry heat sink was amazing.

I will be shooting for an energy zero usage home when i build the next one. I do not want to pay PG&E forever. Just desserts are having a meter run backwards or better yet no meter.

I am a firm believer that the energy usage in America can be solved with properly oriented and insulated homes. Using oil to heat your home in the winter is a crime.
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Old 01-13-2012, 01:21 PM
 
12,823 posts, read 24,274,772 times
Reputation: 11039
Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
I hope you took a picture, that is a rare beast out side the redwood forests, what kind of trees?
Redwoods, of course. That's the only thing logged around here (selective logging of course).

No, I don't take pictures of garden variety activities.
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Old 01-13-2012, 01:34 PM
 
7,150 posts, read 10,833,676 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Trails View Post
...I built a home up in Gold Country and was flirting with passive solar qualities. Being a neophyte at the time it worked too well. In the winter we had to open the windows as it was too hot in January. We did solve the problems with solar shades and plantings. The masonry heat sink was amazing.
lmao yes, it must be nice to have enough sun in the winter to make that mistake!

Another funny thing similar is folks who fall in love with the masonry heat sinks and fireplace / stove options because they make so much sense for places above the arctic circle --- ummm, only to find they are blasted out of their house when they try to use the fire. By the time they get a burn going and heat the masonry, they have to open the whole house to the winds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Trails View Post
I will be shooting for an energy zero usage home when i build the next one. I do not want to pay PG&E forever. Just desserts are having a meter run backwards or better yet no meter.
Yer best solution

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Old 01-13-2012, 01:35 PM
 
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 9,624,497 times
Reputation: 2622
Quote:
No, I don't take pictures of garden variety activities.
At least you were not snarky......

I should have been more specific, here, let me do a rewrite. When was the last time you (generic you, anyone out there) saw a non redwood two or three log load?

The big dougs, pis fir, red fir, Jefferys, Ponderosa, sugar pines are pretty much gone, except where preserved in parks.
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Old 01-13-2012, 10:25 PM
 
Location: Quimper Peninsula
1,981 posts, read 3,134,524 times
Reputation: 1771
Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
At least you were not snarky......

I should have been more specific, here, let me do a rewrite. When was the last time you (generic you, anyone out there) saw a non redwood two or three log load?

The big dougs, pis fir, red fir, Jefferys, Ponderosa, sugar pines are pretty much gone, except where preserved in parks.
I am aware of at least one privately owned and managed stand of sugar pine that are big big big, and selectively cut ever couple decades..

Not sure of out by you but in many areas the good ones are taken by small local mills, and the logs do not go for a long truck ride..

---
Dean trails, Nullgeo,
You guys may just have to give me an email some day.. Good California building knowledge you have! What is right in WI may be very wrong in CA.. I can see it will take me some time to study up if I need to do any construction greater than an outbuilding.
Interesting stuff.. Thanks!
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Old 01-13-2012, 11:08 PM
 
1,664 posts, read 3,938,650 times
Reputation: 1878
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post

Yer best solution
Yeah, but what if i get sand in me knickers?
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Old 01-13-2012, 11:24 PM
 
1,664 posts, read 3,938,650 times
Reputation: 1878
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueTimbers View Post
I am aware of at least one privately owned and managed stand of sugar pine that are big big big, and selectively cut ever couple decades..

Not sure of out by you but in many areas the good ones are taken by small local mills, and the logs do not go for a long truck ride..

---
Dean trails, Nullgeo,
You guys may just have to give me an email some day.. Good California building knowledge you have! What is right in WI may be very wrong in CA.. I can see it will take me some time to study up if I need to do any construction greater than an outbuilding.
Interesting stuff.. Thanks!
What with the more restrictive building codes and energy codes becoming more serious ever few years, you may want to find a good local green home designer.
Here in California, we are required to construct a home with an energy budget based on the climate zone for that area. That and the green regulations for residential uses. It will only get more restrictive as the State Building Departments demand more energy efficiency, environmental preservation and low water use. It isnt like the good old days when a community could raise a barn without government interference.

I read in a local paper today a Church was required to do a final EIR for $70, 000 in a previously developed area in a downtown. Absolutely crazy! That on top of all the other due diligence fees that local and county governments place on development. This is before the project even has any entitlements. So, the church group could go thru the whole process and the City could deny it. Then the City has the audacity to complain that they are losing taxes for lack of development. Its like the boy that killed his parents asking the court for lienency as he was an orphan!
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Old 01-14-2012, 01:55 AM
 
7,150 posts, read 10,833,676 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Trails View Post
Yeah, but what if i get sand in me knickers?
Knickers? What for? We don't need no stinkin' knickers ....
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