Gay marriage in California (safe, exercise, America)
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Of course it isn't, the Christians destroyed it, pretty much as they destroy whatever they come across.
As it will be destroyed by the Cult of Elvis.
You don't know Native American history/culture?
I take it you did not have a liberal education.
Impudent has three syllables, to many of us it is not a "big word" but it does sound "synonym for happy"
English is not your first language? Seems the paragraph explained itself, in standard english.
Granted, I did not have a liberal education, although I try to read often and learn as much as I can. Also, even after a year of Native American studies, I have never encountered anything about their religion(s) accepting, or even having a stance on homosexuality.
And, true, I was writing fast, because I was extremely confused about your hypocrisy with the various names of posters. Honestly, you cannot be so quick to judge.
Also, you're saying that use of the word "impudent" makes me gay? I am...perplexed as to how you even got that.
Ah yes, let's join the California forum for some anarchic attitude! "Live and let live"...are you Paul McCartney, by any chance?
Also, yes, it was I that called you a fool; you got the name (also, I later apologized because I remembered not to hate other human beings) because you mixed up the very important and distinct terms of marriage and civil union.
Live and let live does not = anarchy.
And i would never, ever associate it with the dweebiest of Beatles and/or a soundtrack to a not-the-best James Bond movie ... imo.
Gay marriage, gay marriage, gay marriage, gay marriage ........
Busy busy busy all day ... take a quick break and my what an interesting day you all have had!
Listen, I can't jump in right yet ... but I truly hope that this thread doesn't close yet due to going off track or getting personal etc. There are some really relevant points to cover that seem to have just come up. I would enjoy more dialogue. Most specifically the issue of "major religions" accepting homosexuality ... and Native American acceptance of homosexuality. The answer to both is a very clear "Yes" ... just haven't the opportunity to write more at this moment (engine is apart all over the dock and cockpit ... no-no in the dark which is approaching in less than two hours).
But yes, Native Americans very much accepted homosexuality.
Yes, major religions do, as well.
If you are interested in explanations, you can either look it up yourself -- or play nice until I get more time -- if the moderator doesn't blow a fuse at today's bickering.
The dweebiest of the Beatles? C'mon! I mean, I love George Harrison and Ringo as much as teh next guy, but John was just a little bit out there for me. They were all great writers, though.
Well, I've got to go, so no more argument until Pilgrim returns from lunch break.
yeah, a total dweeb and a great song writer ... with the beatles that is.
after that, blechhhh.
and now, on a lighter and higher note (i mean really, how much more is there to say about gay marriage?) a message from across the universe with a little help from a friend called lsd and of course and primarily the guru (just for you flameangel ) :
Granted, I did not have a liberal education, although I try to read often and learn as much as I can. Also, even after a year of Native American studies, I have never encountered anything about their religion(s) accepting, or even having a stance on homosexuality....
Quick couple of points:
don't know what kind of "Native American studies" you "studied" ... but review of relevant anthropology will answer your question. Native Americans were more accepting of many kinds of minority behaviors than our "modern", Eurocentric culture -- including homosexual behavior.
But most important to point out here is your - and others' -- continual references to acceptance / lack of acceptance of homosexuality in our culture based on religious dogma and tradition ... and your demand that we all acknowledge that position as relevant of civil law in America.
I would point out that:
1.) as TrueTimbers pointed out earlier, many Christian denominations DO in fact accept homosexuality as a normal lifestyle regardless of its minority standing -- to the point where they ordain openly gay ministers. It is really only the Catholic church -- a dying religion by all measures (look it up) -- that adamantly refuses to open its dogma and heart to the full principals of Christ's purported teachings of love and acceptance.
2.) but most importantly, the United States was founded on principals of freedom OF religion -- and freedom FROM religion. Separation of church and state is at the very root of our society, regardless of how Christian the population has been historically compared to other religions.
Religion has zero bearing on any legal, civil decision to condone marriage or how to define language -- or anything else. So this constant religious benchmark that is being thrown around in this discussion is without merit.
Anyone in America is perfectly free to have any opinion they want about homosexuality and marriage -- based on religion or not. However, no one in this country may impose their religious will or viewpoint on another. Americans can vote their choices in our civil process. At this time, that civil process has been running strongly in growing favor of accepting gay marriage -- and calling thus. You don't have to like it ... but you don't get to control it based on your personal or religious preferences -- unless you can engage a majority of other Americans to support you in civil process.
And you can't. The majority now favors homosexual marriage.
Your attack on my example suggests that you have no respect for me, which would be bad, because then we'd be arguing...I shan't even grace the remark in this reply.
Also, name a major religious group that accepts homosexuality. Christianity, Islam, Judaism...
Buddhism has no real stance on the matter, I believe. I suppose everyone just "meditates", since, you know, that solves problems...
I suppose some denominations of Christianity, and maybe some segment of Judaism may tolerate homosexuality, and maybe even accept it, but that has no bearing when I speak of major religions. To me, the whole religion must accept it, not facets of one.
And here we go again with the bigot nonsense. Why am I a bigot to you? You think I can be labeled by a stranger? I am allowed to have, voice and even act upon my opinion, just as you are.
I won't stand for it, friend.
OK you are back.... Don't want to just let this die out with some name calling and so forth? Want to keep digging into the flaws of your thinking?
Under your requirement of the whole religion must accept it... Then I guess Christianity it's self must not be acceptable... Come on think about it... Each major religion has nearly infinite variables within it... From the the Catholic church officially saying non catholics can not take communion at catholic mass, to the individual priests that go against the policy and welcome all that believe in Christ... The difference between a Jehovah witness and a Protestant is huge! Same goes for other religions they have major and minor divisions fractures in doctrine and dogma galore... NO Religion major or minor stands in solidarity on all issues....
Speaking of minor religions...... Are you suggesting major religions beliefs are the only "valid" ones.... Again, Why did the pilgrims and early settlers come to the new world... To escape religious persecution correct? Because their beliefs were different than that of the "major/dominant" religion of their time....
If I have to be labeled, I suppose you can toss a label on me... I belong to the oldest Religion, practiced since man stood upright, in every country and culture on the globe, and still make up the majority of humanity....
I am an eclectic Pagan.... Note Christianity copied much of the Pagans holidays to try to convert them...... What separates those of us that follow Native American ways and other Pagan ways, is we feel their is no need to proselytize and convert others to our belief structure....... Live and let live, No missions no wars to convert others.... This is the root of it IMO.
Many sects of Islam, Judaism, and Christianity feel the need to convert others to their thinking.... It makes sense all three are branches of the same tree, and share many core beliefs, yet have fought and killed one another over their differences since inception...
I see no ground for the "major religion" argument.. It is riddled with flaws...
If civil union of gays is acceptable, and marriage is a "religious ceremony"... A major or dominant religion of the day has no constitutional right to tell another American they can not get married by a church that feels homosexual marriage is OK....... Period.... You deviate from that and you create State religion, and fall down the same slippery slope that many Islamic fundamentalist countries have...
Is this where you want the USA to go, just to provide comfort with your personal interpretation of right and wrong???????
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