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Old 01-22-2012, 08:55 PM
 
11 posts, read 27,490 times
Reputation: 21

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Quote:
Originally Posted by esmith143 View Post
Here's a practical objection. This map draws a state boundary between Los Angeles County and Orange/San Bernardino County. This is unreasonable. In particular, Los Angeles and north OC are, for all practical purposes, one big city and it's hard to tell where one begins and the other ends. Likewise, declaring that, say, Pomona goes into one state and Ontario goes into a different state, with independent governments, different laws, etc. would cause a lot of hassle to many local residents. Keep in mind that many residents of Ontario, Corona, Fontana, etc. (all in Riverside/SB counties) commute to work in Los Angeles.

Any reasonable partition would place the entire Greater LA within the same state. That means Ventura County, Los Angeles County, Orange County, and parts of Riverside & San Bernardino County at least as far as San Gorgonio Pass. Once that is settled, it is logical that San Diego should go into the same state too (it would be cut off from the rest of California).

Politically, any partition that stands even a remote chance of being implemented must create one more solid-blue state than solid-red state. Otherwise one of the major parties will object.
That considerably limits your options (as I said, it's hard to make more than one solid-red state out of CA, so you can't have more than two solid-blue states, one will be rooted in SF Bay Area, and the other will be centered around LA).
There are lots of border cities in the United States - think Kansas City, St Louis/East St Louis, Portland/Vancouver WA, and Texarkana. They get along just fine.
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Old 01-22-2012, 08:56 PM
 
11,715 posts, read 40,361,816 times
Reputation: 7585
Quote:
Originally Posted by esmith143 View Post
Here's a practical objection. This map draws a state boundary between Los Angeles County and Orange/San Bernardino County. This is unreasonable. In particular, Los Angeles and north OC are, for all practical purposes, one big city and it's hard to tell where one begins and the other ends.
Plenty of metros span states. NYC and northern NJ being the biggest example.
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Old 01-22-2012, 09:02 PM
 
Location: Long Beach, CA
463 posts, read 1,289,181 times
Reputation: 127
This is really lame.
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Old 01-22-2012, 09:04 PM
 
Location: Southern California
15,083 posts, read 20,421,793 times
Reputation: 10343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Equal Representation View Post
There are lots of border cities in the United States - think Kansas City, St Louis/East St Louis, Portland/Vancouver WA, and Texarkana. They get along just fine.
State borders were created well before many, if not all, of these metropolitan areas were established. Anyway, from a planning (development and construction of infrastructure for example) and law enforcement perspective, it's difficult enough trying to organize across city and county jurisdictions. The new states will simply complicate it.

[solve one problem and create another]
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Old 01-22-2012, 09:05 PM
 
Location: Southern California
15,083 posts, read 20,421,793 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scubashawn68 View Post
This is really lame.
Not really. It has merit but the devil is in the details.

[a division between northern and southern California is where I'd start]
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Old 01-22-2012, 09:15 PM
 
Location: Escondido, CA
1,504 posts, read 6,137,230 times
Reputation: 886
Quote:
Originally Posted by Equal Representation View Post
There are lots of border cities in the United States - think Kansas City, St Louis/East St Louis, Portland/Vancouver WA, and Texarkana. They get along just fine.
It is workable (with effort), but it's one thing to have two cities on different sides of a state border which grow and eventually meet at the border, it's totally different to draw an arbitrary line through an existing unified metro and to say "houses to the left, pay taxes to Los Angeles, and follow one set of laws; houses to the right, pay taxes to San Diego, and follow a different set of laws". There are all sorts of complications, starting with taxation (what do you do when a wholesale business in a house on the left sells stuff to a contractor from a house on the right?); municipal services like water & electricity; accreditation issues (a teacher or a lawyer with a license from one state may not be allowed to work in the other state); diverging penal code (for starters, you're pretty much guaranteed to have major differences in concealed-carry laws); even diverging traffic laws.

Surely, all that can be dealt with if you really want to, but I fail to see a good justification to open this can of worms in the first place.
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Old 01-22-2012, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Sacramento, Placerville
2,511 posts, read 6,276,003 times
Reputation: 2260
Whoever made this map is geographically challenged. Sacramento is not in the San Joaquin Valley. Additionally, Sacramento has nothing in common with Fresno or Bakersfield, or even its neighbour in close proximity, Stockton. Los Angeles as part of the Central Coast? You have got to be kidding.

Aside from all that this topic has been over-discussed and the people who bring up the subject of splitting up the state draw up maps based on their own personal biases with little knowledge of the various sub-regions, and I can't think of any posts wherein the agenda wasn't "Jefferson." I've lived and worked up and down the Sacramento Valley. Sorry, but Oroville is about as "unique" as it gets, and many people will tell you Oroville's uniqueness isn't much to talk about.


At any rate, it amuses me how much people in any given region of the state like to stick labels on people in other regions.








Quote:
Originally Posted by Equal Representation View Post
I'd be interested to see what you all think about partitioning California into 5 states, something like this:


[url=facebook.com/equalrepresentation/]

Lines drawn when California's population was less than 100,000 no longer reflect our social, economic, and cultural differences. California is the largest state in the union by population, and as such, nearly one in six Americans is a Californian. Only one in 50 senators is a Californian, however. The east coast of the United States has 32 senators representing its interests, while the west coast only has 6. If California were a country, it would be the world's 8th largest economy. 40 million people deserve to have their voices heard in the senate. Partitioning the state isn't about division, it's about REvision. The golden state is simply too large to manage as one entity.

Politically, a 5 state solution is a far superior to the two state solution proposed in 2011 by Riverside county supervisor Jeff Stone. The map 5 Californias uses would create two blue states, two red states, and a swing state (the San Joaquin Valley). These lines are of course not inflexible, and the number of states is certainly up for debase at well, the purpose of the map is simply to provide a visual reference and get people talking.

We need to talk about this, not just Californians, but as a nation. I have to stress, the creation of this map is not about separating people politically, it's about bringing the capital closer to home, having people participate in policy-making because they believe they can make a difference, and giving oft-marginalized regions a voice at the national level.

Let the comments begin.

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Old 01-22-2012, 09:45 PM
 
7,150 posts, read 10,854,602 times
Reputation: 3806
The problem I see as most pressing with regard to splitting California into 5 states is arriving at a 5-state-solution to stem the tide of illegal immigration from Canada into the area. Those pasty-white Nanooks and Sgt. Preston's (look him up if you want to be scared straight out of this nonsense) could really play havoc with California's resources if it is weakened by splitting -- just the kind of opportunity they are looking to pounce on. I hope you all think long and hard about this idea ... and if you all lobby for it anyway: hope you like Moose-Turd pie.

I've said my piece ... and I've got my snowshoes if I need 'em ... may god have mercy on your souls.

Last edited by nullgeo; 01-22-2012 at 10:19 PM..
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Old 01-22-2012, 10:14 PM
 
11 posts, read 27,490 times
Reputation: 21
Default Or

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Old 01-22-2012, 10:17 PM
 
Location: Escondido, CA
1,504 posts, read 6,137,230 times
Reputation: 886
Quote:
Sacramento is not in the San Joaquin Valley. Additionally, Sacramento has nothing in common with Fresno or Bakersfield, or even its neighbour in close proximity, Stockton.
Well, he obviously couldn't put Sacramento County in with Jefferson - if he did that, that would single-handedly turn Jefferson into a blue-leaning state (Sacramento has almost as many people than the rest of Jefferson). And, if he puts Sacramento with SFBA, he'd have to put Yolo County with SFBA as well (which is where Yolo should probably go anyway.) That makes partitioning of the population even more uneven than it is.
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