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Old 04-18-2012, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
6,288 posts, read 11,740,401 times
Reputation: 3369

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Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
If your friends had cell service they were not out in the middle of nowhere.
Not cell phone. When I say GPS I'm talking about satellite-based GPS service.

Quote:

Your questions where to hike can best be answered here;high sierra hiking
Thanks I'll check that link.
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Old 04-19-2012, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
6,288 posts, read 11,740,401 times
Reputation: 3369
Here's the complete story:

This guy and his friends were 4-wheeling in the desert. The guy went off on his own or otherwise got separated from them. He ended up taking a tumble down a ravine or over a cliff or something and got banged up. There he was lying in the dirt - alive, but unable to move due to broken bones - when our friends encountered him. Our friends (father and son) were out hunting, also on their 4-wheelers. They had a handheld GPS with them, which they used to make note of the coordinates. Then one of them drove back to where he could get a cell phone signal and made the call to the rescue people, giving them the GPS coordinates of the injured guy. This is the information the helicopter crew used to find him. In the meantime, the guy's friends had noticed him missing and had started looking for him and eventually found him with our friend. One of the guy's friends was a paramedic so he was able to help him a little while they waited for the helicopter.

Imagine being out in the desert, far removed from any visible civilization, perhaps on unmarked dirt roads or maybe even blazing your own trail. Imagine not having a GPS or any map information and trying to explain to the rescue crew where you are. This is extremely difficult, obviously. Let's say you have a topo map and compass: A lot easier, but still room for error - and, small errors on a map are "big" errors in the real life scale. With a GPS it's easy and 100% accurate. You can direct the rescue team precisely (probably within 20 feet accuracy) of where you need them to be. There's no guesswork or time wasted trying to find the location.

GPS can be useful in the backcountry, as the above example shows. To make a blanket statement like "GPS is worthless you should leave it at home whenever you go into the mountains" is an over-the-top, untrue and irresponsible statement.
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Old 04-19-2012, 03:46 PM
 
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 9,643,913 times
Reputation: 2622
First mistake was riding ATV's they kill near a thousand people a year.

Second mistake was not maintaining knowledge of one's location on the ground by observation.

Third mistake was not knowing the township and range, or location by observation. If one cannot bring bring a SAR right to ones location by observation and map reading, one needs to upgrade ones skills.

Fourth, not a mistake, but a simple statement. Men have traveled the wilderness successfully and have been rescued successfully for a fair bit of time before gps. They did so by traveling responsibly and by taking note of their location.

Fifth, if one desires a battery operated crutch, SPOT, as I indicated would have had SAR onsite within an hour of the accident. Taking coordinates and driving to a location with Cell Service is a waste of time and a poor use of battery operated crutches.
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Old 04-19-2012, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
6,288 posts, read 11,740,401 times
Reputation: 3369
Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
Fourth, not a mistake, but a simple statement. Men have traveled the wilderness successfully and have been rescued successfully for a fair bit of time before gps. They did so by traveling responsibly and by taking note of their location.
Lol. Not a question of whether it's possible to navigate without a GPS. Of course it's possible. It's a matter of convenience and ease. Sounds like you're anti-technology.

Back in the old days people used to die from bacterial infections. Then the microscope and penicillin came along and fixed that.

By the way, nowadays how do they prefer to locate and rescue people at sea? GPS.

Is GPS a valid tool to use in the backcountry? You bet it is.

By the way, I'd be willing to bet these friends of ours have more backcountry experience than you.
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Old 04-19-2012, 04:52 PM
 
25,619 posts, read 36,568,173 times
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Seen a few GPS give out or break from a fall.

Then what.

Always have a back up.

As suggested SPOT is without equal in the backcountry.

Only thing we use GPS for when out in the wilds is to find the nearest burger joint when we come out.
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Old 04-19-2012, 05:50 PM
 
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 9,643,913 times
Reputation: 2622
[quote=80skeys;23937571

By the way, I'd be willing to bet these friends of ours have more backcountry experience than you.[/QUOTE]

You could be right, if they have spent most of the last 5 decades living and working in wilderness.

Funny, I just read a thread title on another forum

Quote:
G$%#@*(& this is the last time Garmin sends me down the wrong road.
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Old 04-20-2012, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
6,288 posts, read 11,740,401 times
Reputation: 3369
Quote:
Originally Posted by .highnlite View Post
You could be right, if they have spent most of the last 5 decades living and working in wilderness.
Well, the father is in his 70s and he has spent his whole life hunting, fishing, hiking, camping, etc. The son is probably 50 years old at this point.
My dad and I both grew up in the Rocky Mountains.

There's a lot of people who know what they're doing in the backcountry, man. You're not the only one.

Personally I'm planning a trip back to the Selway Bitterroot this summer. I may or may not use a SPOT for that. Haven't decided yet.
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Old 04-20-2012, 12:14 PM
 
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 9,643,913 times
Reputation: 2622
Quote:
Originally Posted by 80skeys View Post
Well, the father is in his 70s and he has spent his whole life hunting, fishing, hiking, camping, etc. The son is probably 50 years old at this point.

There's a lot of people who know what they're doing in the backcountry, man. You're not the only one.
Never said I was, If your friend's are using ATV's, gps and cell phones, I ain't impressed.

They probably have scopes on their rifles too.
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Old 04-20-2012, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
6,288 posts, read 11,740,401 times
Reputation: 3369
It occurred to me there might be some confusion about what I mean when I say I use GPS in the wildnerness. For the benefit of people who might be curious (not .highnlite because he already knows Everything), I don't use GPS to give me directions on where to go. For that I use topo maps. I use GPS to tell me my current location (lat/long), to set waypoints, and to keep track of distance travelled. The latter, in particular, I use quite a bit. It can be useful to know how many miles there are left to hike before you reach the lake or whatnot.

I also usually compare the topo map in my GPS with my paper map to make sure they show the same information (so that I feel comfortable in using the GPS for determining routes if the situation were to arise).

Regarding waypoints (marking and recalling a location), one thing I've used them for is as follows:
sometimes we like to explore without our packs. For example, climbing to the top of a summit that looks interesting. We'll "hide" our packs somewhere in the woods off-trail, mark the location with the GPS, and easily be able to find them when we return. Of course, I don't leave it all up to the GPS. I also make mental note of landscape features, etc. in case the GPS gets broken.

But as far as using the GPS to actually tell me which way to go, where to turn and which trail to take? No way.
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Old 04-20-2012, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
6,288 posts, read 11,740,401 times
Reputation: 3369
Regarding SPOT, if I do end up taking one to Idaho this summer it would be only for emergency communication with the outside world. I wouldn't use any of the other features.

By the way, SPOT uses GPS, of course. So it's pretty ridiculous to criticise GPS while in the same breath advocating the use of SPOT.
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