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Old 02-10-2012, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,460 posts, read 20,016,914 times
Reputation: 4365

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
What's actually funny is your glib ignorance. This college can and does restrict employment based on faith. All professors at this institution take an oath of fidelity to the Magisterium of the Catholic Church.
Glib ignorance of what exactly? I'm citing the laws of the land, no institution with 15 or more employees can restrict employment by religion, sex, etc.

Federal Laws Prohibiting Job Discrimination: Questions And Answers


So such a "oath of fidelity" is against the law, though I doubt there is much issue since non-Catholic instructors are unlikely to apply in the first place. But this is just a faculty thing......colleges have many non-faculty employees.

So my point remains, here you have an institution that can't legally hire based on religion yet is demanding that its employees adhere to its dogma. The only real question is why would anybody ever attend this college? I mean, they can't even get basic legal matters straight.....

 
Old 02-10-2012, 03:18 PM
 
Location: The Other California
4,254 posts, read 5,589,121 times
Reputation: 1552
From the Becket Fund for Religious Liberty:

"However, at least three problems remain. First, hundreds if not thousands of religious organizations self insure, meaning that they will still be forced to pay for these services in violation of their religious beliefs. Second, it is unclear which religious organizations are permitted to claim the new exemption, and whether it will extend to for-profit organizations, individuals, or non-denominational organizations. Third, money is fungible, and many religious organizations may still object to being forced to pay money to an insurance company which will turn around and provide contraception to its employees for free."
 
Old 02-10-2012, 03:23 PM
 
Location: The Other California
4,254 posts, read 5,589,121 times
Reputation: 1552
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
So such a "oath of fidelity" is against the law ...
No, it isn't. Religious Organization Exception to Title VII:

"Under Title VII, religious organizations are permitted to give employment preference to members of their own religion. The exception applies only to those institutions whose 'purpose and character are primarily religious.' Factors to consider that would indicate whether an entity is religious include: whether its articles of incorporation state a religious purpose; whether its day-to-day operations are religious (e.g., are the services the entity performs, the product it produces, or the educational curriculum it provides directed toward propagation of the religion?); whether it is not-for-profit; and whether it affiliated with, or supported by, a church or other religious organization.

This exception is not limited to religious activities of the organization. However, it only allows religious organizations to prefer to employ individuals who share their religion. The exception does not allow religious organizations otherwise to discriminate in employment on the basis of race, color, national origin, sex, age, or disability. Thus, a religious organization is not permitted to engage in racially discriminatory hiring by asserting that a tenet of its religious beliefs is not associating with people of other races."

You're welcome.
 
Old 02-10-2012, 03:28 PM
 
Location: The Other California
4,254 posts, read 5,589,121 times
Reputation: 1552
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
So my point remains, here you have an institution that can't legally hire based on religion yet is demanding that its employees adhere to its dogma. The only real question is why would anybody ever attend this college? I mean, they can't even get basic legal matters straight.....
Wow, your extreme ignorance is bad enough, but what pomposity! You are dead wrong. Religious colleges do this all the time. What, you think they don't have teams of lawyers helping them navigate the whole discrimination minefield?
 
Old 02-10-2012, 03:48 PM
 
7,150 posts, read 10,853,309 times
Reputation: 3806
I think we are collectively entering the Twilight Zone on this thread: a battle royale between two unmovable forces: WesternPilgrim and user_id ... this is going to be better than Godzilla vs. Ghidorah ... time to get out the popcorn ...

 
Old 02-10-2012, 03:54 PM
 
Location: The Other California
4,254 posts, read 5,589,121 times
Reputation: 1552
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
I think we are collectively entering the Twilight Zone on this thread: a battle royale between two unmovable forces: WesternPilgrim and user_id ... this is going to be better than Godzilla vs. Ghidorah ... time to get out the popcorn ...
There is no battle: user_id has been trounced. As have you, too many times to count.
 
Old 02-10-2012, 04:18 PM
 
7,150 posts, read 10,853,309 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
There is no battle: user_id has been trounced. As have you, too many times to count.
As for me: I remain untouched. Your delusions are a common topic.

As for user_id: you apparently are not familiar with the master-debating phenomena ... trouncings don't kill it.
 
Old 02-10-2012, 04:58 PM
 
Location: The Other California
4,254 posts, read 5,589,121 times
Reputation: 1552
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
As for me: I remain untouched.
Hardly. Your uncanny ability to keep talking after you've lost an argument doesn't fool anyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
As for user_id: you apparently are not familiar with the master-debating phenomena ... trouncings don't kill it.
I doubt that we'll be hearing from user_id again on the topic of employment discrimination by religious institutions. If he comes back, he'll change the subject.
 
Old 02-10-2012, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,460 posts, read 20,016,914 times
Reputation: 4365
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
I'm welcome for what? I'm aware of the religious organization exception, but its often difficult for colleges to quality as such (especially true if they deal with public financial aid). It depends entirely on the details of the organization....and its doubtful any non-Catholic faculty would even bother applying so they'd never need to test the legality of their oath in the first place. But, to say it again, their oath was just for faculty members. Regardless of legality, its just bad policy for a college to discriminate against the majority (non-Catholics) for jobs that have nothing to do with religion (i.e., non-faculty staff).

Anyhow, whether or not all its employees are Catholic or not, one has to be amused by the denial of the mere availability or something. I guess they are worried about people having moments of sanity when they are not around church officials....?
 
Old 02-10-2012, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,460 posts, read 20,016,914 times
Reputation: 4365
Quote:
Originally Posted by osimeon00 View Post
No institution except private ones. And we all know most Catholic universities are private. So they can do whatever the hell they want.
Umm..huh? The laws apply to private institutions, the key question would be whether the college qualifies as a "religious institution" and there is no clear cut criteria for that.
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