Just for fun...when CA. finally taxes you out, where will you go? Why? (Oakland: condos, mortgage)
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Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
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First off, why do you think the claim that California is so uniquely desirable is a certainty?
There is a reason why California has so many people, and that is because it is uniquely desirable. There is no other state with the range of climates, geography and industry as California.
Southern California is stereotyped as the land of blue eyed blonds because it is stocked with north Europeans /Scandinavians who figured out that wheat farming in the upper mid west was not as pleasant as fruit/nut/produce farming in SoCal.
First off, why do you think the claim that California is so uniquely desirable is a certainty? What makes you so sure that many folks couldn't find as much, or more, happiness and contentment in other much less expensive places? Do you not realize that many folks absolutely love places near the Great Lakes, or some of the river cities in the Midwest, or places along the East or Gulf Coastlines?
You are only expressing your own point of view.
Millions of folks, likely 10's of millions of folks, would completely disagree with you.
No question: 10's of millions of folks DO prefer life elsewhere -- including the upper mid-west ... and thank goodness! And that was never in contention here. California, as .highnlite has also pointed out, is the most populous state in the country for a reason ... it wasn't always so, obviously ... this state has, however, always ranked as one of the top, and typically THE TOP, place people desire to move to. There are reasons for that -- including the ones that hold you here, I suspect.
As for MY personal point of view: ummm, sort of kind of ... I certainly DO love California and if I could only live one place, California would have to be it, hands down. And yet, my preference is living in a larger triangle of Pacific coast that extends thousands of miles beyond California, as you know. And I can -- and AM -- perfectly happy to live anywhere in the triangle I have set for myself -- even if I excluded California (though that would make me cry a bit )
There is a reason why California has so many people, and that is because it is uniquely desirable. There is no other state with the range of climates, geography and industry as California.
Southern California is stereotyped as the land of blue eyed blonds because it is stocked with north Europeans /Scandinavians who figured out that wheat farming in the upper mid west was not as pleasant as fruit/nut/produce farming in SoCal.
Big deal.
So 40 million folks live in California, I could point out that 270 million US residents live elsewhere.
For some folks the attributes you point out make California a desirable place, believe it or not many folks don't think it is anything more than a neat place to visit once or twice a lifetime, but would choose to live elsewhere.
I have a good friend who retired a few years ago and can easily afford to live anywhere, and he chose to move to the Lake Michigan coastline of Michigan. He just loves the climate, fishing, and Sleeping Bear Dunes area. He also likes taking trips up to the Upper Peninsula, thinks that is the most beautiful areas he has ever seen.
He has been to California many times on business trips, both to northern and southern areas. So it isn't like he hasn't seen what California has to offer.
There are millions just like him.
Last edited by NewToCA; 02-12-2012 at 01:40 PM..
Reason: Sleeping Bear, not Big Bear
The difference in tax burden between CA and the "low tax" states is no more than 4%. On an income of $100,000 a year, that is about $11.00 per day.
You are likely to save more than that on heating and/or cooling costs by staying in California with its benign climate.
In California you would pay about $10,500 total tax burden, in Texas you would pay about $7,500.
Many would consider that $4,000 a reasonable fee for not having to live in Texas.
States like Tennessee has no state tax so there is a big difference with some states. Aside from income taxes, homes and rents in other states are much lower as well as utility costs, insurance, property tax's, car registration, food, energy, etc. California gets you coming and going and then they use you tax dollars for the liberal agenda like the Dream act, paying for illegals to live and go to school, big public unions paychecks and pensions ... just to name a few ...
So 40 million folks live in California, I could point out that 270 million US residents live elsewhere.
For some folks the attributes you point out make California a desirable place, believe it or not many folks don't think it is anything more than a neat place to visit once or twice a lifetime, but would choose to live elsewhere.
I have a good friend who retired a few years ago and can easily afford to live anywhere, and he chose to move to the Lake Michigan coastline of Michigan. He just loves the climate, fishing, and Big Bear Dunes area. He also likes taking trips up to the Upper Peninsula, thinks that is the most beautiful areas he has ever seen.
He has been to California many times on business trips, both to northern and southern areas. So it isn't like he hasn't seen what California has to offer.
There are millions just like him.
Again, I don't read the discussion here as saying that "everyone" desires California most over other places ... I read it as more people desire California than any other single place, and thus its expense for prime space. I also know many people like your friend in Michigan. Anecdotal stories don't tell the tale, however. I am from Michigan and I wouldn't live there for anything again. I'd slash my wrists faced with the prospect.
Here's an interesting article (that doesn't say everyone prefers California) on the subject of discontent and desire to move among Americans ... draw your own conclusions ... it presents good numbers for places other than California ... yet, as I read it, I still see California as winning the most hearts: Pew: Almost half of Americans want to live somewhere else - USATODAY.com
How about doing side by side comparisons with some areas, such as:
- Myrtle Beach, South Carolina or Galveston, Texas vs Santa Cruz
- Charleston, South Carolina vs San Luis Obispo or Santa Barbara
- Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania vs Oakland
- Knoxville, Tennessee vs Riverside
You'll see that the income and property taxes (for similar homes), are much higher in California.
Wow ... I don't see any comparison between Charleston, S.C. (nice as it is in ways at times) and Santa Barbara or San Luis Obispo. And for whatever bad raps Oakland gets -- Pittsburgh, PA?
Myrtle Beach and Santa Cruz is not a bad comp to make though ... you picked a fair one there, I'd say.
For me, mid sized to large metro areas are more of an appeal. As a deaf person, jobs generally are easier to find in metro areas with good job growth. Many deaf people who are motivated to find jobs prefer to live in bigger cities than the ones who aren't movitated end up in small towns collecting government money. Deaf people have different appeals from hearing people which stats don't normally show that.
For me, mid sized to large metro areas are more of an appeal. As a deaf person, jobs generally are easier to find in metro areas with good job growth. Many deaf people who are motivated to find jobs prefer to live in bigger cities than the ones who aren't movitated end up in small towns collecting government money. Deaf people have different appeals from hearing people which stats don't normally show that.
You are Deaf? First other Deaf person I have encountered on cdf . My wife is (born) profoundly deaf (Minnesota) and we are an ASL 1st language home (I have severe hearing loss from military service). Our home base is in the San Juan Islands, but live part time in Calif., and Hawaii as well.
Are you a severe or profound Deaf ASL signer -- or mainstreamed oral-deaf? You wrote previously that you were originally from the Bay area -- did you by chance attend school in Fremont? Looking to return to California to work in what field? It IS a terrific state
I have a good friend who retired a few years ago and can easily afford to live anywhere, and he chose to move to the Lake Michigan coastline of Michigan. He just loves the climate, fishing, and Big Bear Dunes area. He also likes taking trips up to the Upper Peninsula, thinks that is the most beautiful areas he has ever seen.
Yep it is beautiful... Yes hearing the mournful call of the common Loon, sitting by a peaceful lake in the big woods very special..Yep fishing is great... But one can not eat many salmon out of the great lakes they are full of heavy metals and PCB's yet.. Especially children or child bearing woman need to be careful..
Wisconsin taxes are very high... and the winters are long, and summers are hot and humid. I bet if I put you on a lake Superior beach in June... Within 1/2 hour you would never complain about California taxes again... The black flies will have any exposed skin dripping with blood in no time at all, so you run to the woods to escape the black flies, to then be consumed by the Mosquitoes...
You have not seen depressed economy until you have lived in the UP (Upper Peninsula)... Oh yes it is cheap cheap cheap... Ground is frozen and often snow covered from October through May... We have had years the ice has not come off the lakes until May 24th... Then you deal with the flies and mosquitoes, and you can not wait for frost to come back in September. Which then we usually get a few decent weeks before the 300 inches of snow comes... Lake effect snow country makes the PNW seem like a sunny spot in winter... ..
If you guys in California are sick of the rat race, I strongly suggest the UP of Michigan... You can sell out in California, buy a decent place for less than $100K, and just live simple off your profits from selling out in California... Don't even need to live in a van or boat like Nullgeo.. Just be prepared to deal with cabin fever...
You have to love winter .. XC skiing, ice fishing, hockey, snowmobiles and indoor activities, like sittin in da bar.. ya hey.. Oh, yes you got ta learn da language to ya... Yooper is a language unto itself..
Lastly I feel taxes generally represent, society one wants to live in and things such as infrastructure and education which equals jobs and people with teeth that do not play banjo's.
IMO one will not be happy if they make decisions on where they live based on the tax rate... There is more to life than money...
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. My wife is (born) profoundly deaf (Minnesota) and we are an ASL 1st language home (I have severe hearing loss from military service). Our home base is in the San Juan Islands, but live part time in Calif., and Hawaii as well. 
