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Old 02-22-2012, 02:20 PM
 
Location: Glendale, CA
1,138 posts, read 924,322 times
Reputation: 1064
Is it just me that cannot make sense of the title of this thread?
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Old 02-22-2012, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Fresno
104 posts, read 163,408 times
Reputation: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaijai View Post
Being ignorant about another race or culture doesn't = racism.
Holding negative attitudes, assumptions and generalizations about a race or culture due to that ignorance is what's racist.
What about holding positive attitudes, assumptions, and generalizations about a race or culture? Doesn't that classify as being racist too?
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Old 02-22-2012, 03:10 PM
 
Location: San Diego
16,724 posts, read 12,374,278 times
Reputation: 5738
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaijai View Post
It's not racist to want to live in a neighborhood where people are respectful of their own home and of the residents and homes around them.
It's only racist when one assumes that someone who isn't white is going to be that kind of a problem and makes generalizations about people based on race.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaijai View Post
Being ignorant about another race or culture doesn't = racism.
Holding negative attitudes, assumptions and generalizations about a race or culture due to that ignorance is what's racist.
Agreed, I just wanted to point out that "whites" don't have the only privilege of racism as pointed out by another poster. ALL races are guilty of it. Even to the point of being racist against people that look and sound like themselves. I tend to think that people are just ignorant because that's all they've witnessed. I won't hold ill will against someone for that.
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Old 02-22-2012, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
2,192 posts, read 2,888,889 times
Reputation: 1917
Quote:
Originally Posted by jghall00 View Post
What about holding positive attitudes, assumptions, and generalizations about a race or culture? Doesn't that classify as being racist too?
an example of that?
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Old 02-22-2012, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Fresno
104 posts, read 163,408 times
Reputation: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaijai View Post
an example of that?
Asians are the model minority.

Jews are good with money.

Blacks are good at sports.

Hispanics are family oriented.
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Old 02-22-2012, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
2,192 posts, read 2,888,889 times
Reputation: 1917
Quote:
Originally Posted by jghall00 View Post
Asians are the model minority.

Jews are good with money.

Blacks are good at sports.

Hispanics are family oriented.
Does a Mexican American mind that people tend to think that they're family oriented? Probably not but i'm not in a position to say.
Do Asians mind that positive generalization? Probably not but again, it would be presumptuous for me to say.
I would imagine though that the pressure on an Asian kid (as an example) to be a model student can be a somewhat difficult if he/she has parents with high academic expectations but the kid isn't so inclined.
The other two stereotypes? ... well, they're more loaded and could easily have negative connotations even though they both sound positive.
Saying that a Jewish person is good with money has historically suggested some not so nice things and the same is true regarding the notion that African Americans are good at sports.
There is / has been a nasty and derogatory subtext regarding both.
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Old 02-22-2012, 05:34 PM
 
Location: Fresno
104 posts, read 163,408 times
Reputation: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaijai View Post
Does a Mexican American mind that people tend to think that they're family oriented? Probably not but i'm not in a position to say.
Do Asians mind that positive generalization? Probably not but again, it would be presumptuous for me to say.
I would imagine though that the pressure on an Asian kid (as an example) to be a model student can be a somewhat difficult if he/she has parents with high academic expectations but the kid isn't so inclined.
The other two stereotypes? ... well, they're more loaded and could easily have negative connotations even though they both sound positive.
Saying that a Jewish person is good with money has historically suggested some not so nice things and the same is true regarding the notion that African Americans are good at sports.
There is / has been a nasty and derogatory subtext regarding both.
My point exactly. Connotations that that are ostensibly positive can also carry negative sentiments or undertones. Racism isn't the province of those who would diminish others. It's also the province of those who ascribe positive attributions to others based on race.

The truth—and the point I made previously— is that race doesn't carry the predictive power that it once did. The point I'm making now is that racism is more than just putting certain people down; it's also raising certain people up.

For a more specific example:

Blacks are good at sports. So you have cities full of black kids pursuing professional sports, when only a tiny fraction can actually turn pro. They'd be better off pursuing engineering, or the sciences.

Asians are book smart, so you don't get as many Jeremy Lins as there otherwise would be, absent the stereotype.
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Old 02-22-2012, 05:41 PM
 
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
2,192 posts, read 2,888,889 times
Reputation: 1917
I hear you.
But saying that Mexican Americans tend to be family oriented carries no negative connotation.
It's just a stereotype.
The same is true for the notion that Asians tend to excel academically. It's just a stereotype.
But saying that a Jewish person is good with money or African Americans are good at sports carries heavy negative connotations that goes beyond stereotyping.

Last edited by jaijai; 02-22-2012 at 05:53 PM..
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Old 02-22-2012, 06:59 PM
 
Location: GLAMA
16,591 posts, read 18,441,806 times
Reputation: 15983
Quote:
Originally Posted by jghall00 View Post
Is it still racism if the new arrivals really are screwing up the neighborhood and schools?

My mother in law had an African-American family on section 8 move into the home across the street from her (the neighborhood has been going downhill since she moved in over 10 years ago). Judging from their behavior (loud, obnoxious, parking on law) and appearance, my wife and I told her it was time to move. Our statement was based in part on the following events: one night, police had the entire family lined up on the curb; another time, an officer told my father in law that the entire family was bad news.

Is it racist to want to move away from that?

If you take out "Mexicans" your friend still may have a valid basis for moving, separate and apart from the race of the offending new arrivals.
I'm thinking my point eluded you?
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Old 02-22-2012, 08:08 PM
 
Location: Fresno
104 posts, read 163,408 times
Reputation: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fontucky View Post
I'm thinking my point eluded you?
If your point was that your black friend was just as racist as your dad, and that complaints about ethnic changes in neighborhoods are common, then no.

My point was that complaining about the new arrivals bringing down the neighborhood is not racist just because the ethnicity of the arrivals is identified. If the complaint itself can be separated from the ethnicity of the offending party, it's not necessarily based on race just because the person adds black/hispanic/purple to the complaint.

It's the equivalent of me saying these poor people are destroying schools. Then saying those poor Hispanic people are destroying schools. Does the former comment become racist just because I include the ethnicity of the offending party?

It all goes back to my original point: class is rapidly becoming more of an issue than race. But people still sometimes use race as a proxy for class, when it can't always be reliably used as such.
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