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Old 03-05-2012, 11:41 PM
 
7,151 posts, read 4,142,147 times
Reputation: 3806
I suspect that the difference between "spirituality" and "religion" as some people try to distinguish them are that "spirituality" is felt to be an acknowledgement of amorphic and scientifically unmeasurable motivating forces -- most specifically of consciousness. Whereas "religion" is being thought of as dogmatic teachings and rituals organized around formalized beliefs of supernatural, omnipotent being[s] that acts with intent and purpose toward life.

As for me: I find broccoli to be a deeply spiritual experience ... but religious? Nah.
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:49 PM
 
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
2,192 posts, read 3,151,591 times
Reputation: 1938
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
I suspect that the difference between "spirituality" and "religion" as some people try to distinguish them are that "spirituality" is felt to be an acknowledgment of amorphous and scientifically unmeasurable motivating forces -- most specifically of consciousness. Whereas "religion" is being thought of as dogmatic teachings and rituals organized around formalized beliefs of supernatural, omnipotent being[s] that acts with intent and purpose toward life.

As for me: I find broccoli to be a deeply spiritual experience ... but religious? Nah.
That's a good way of expressing / describing the distinction.
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Old 03-06-2012, 12:32 AM
Status: "Grains....Grains" (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,312 posts, read 10,201,200 times
Reputation: 4038
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaijai View Post
There is something called "direct experience" and has nothing to do with religious beliefs.
There is? You mean the senses? I've got those.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaijai View Post
And you don't "lack an interconnectedness" with anything or anyone.
You're just not aware of the connection(s).
Oh yeah? Do I need to accept Jesus into my heart to become aware...err...wait wrong religion......I need to meditate? How exactly does one know when they are aware? Maybe I'm already aware? Maybe I've reached super awareness where I'm no longer aware that I'm aware of my awareness.... Just a little confused about this stuff....

Anyhow, you're still preaching to me which is funny considering its pretty obvious that I'm not taking any of it seriously. Remind you of anybody?

Last edited by user_id; 03-06-2012 at 12:44 AM..
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Old 03-06-2012, 12:37 AM
Status: "Grains....Grains" (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
12,312 posts, read 10,201,200 times
Reputation: 4038
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
I suspect that the difference between "spirituality" and "religion" as some people try to distinguish them are that "spirituality" is felt to be an acknowledgement of amorphic and scientifically unmeasurable motivating forces -- most specifically of consciousness. Whereas "religion" is being thought of as dogmatic teachings...
Yes, its being defined in contrast to so called "organized religion". Years ago I had a philosophy of religion teacher, a fairly known Catholic scholar, that would get real annoyed by this... In fact, I often thought she was more annoyed with the "spiritual" folks than with atheists in the corner giggling about things. Anyhow....fun times.

Broccoli gives me gas, that's about as close to spiritual as a get.
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Old 03-06-2012, 12:45 AM
 
7,151 posts, read 4,142,147 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
... Broccoli gives me gas, that's about as close to spiritual as a get.
heh -- user made a funny -- will wonders never cease

Also funny, broccoli has a reputation for giving people gas, and yet such has not been my experience? Huh, perhaps it is truly a match made in heaven ... a spiritual connection ... I can believe in this ... I sense dogma and ritual will be next ... broccoli worship ... nullgeo ... whodathunkit?
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Old 03-06-2012, 01:55 AM
 
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
7,348 posts, read 4,158,347 times
Reputation: 8485
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Suffering
But to define life as suffering? Not me.
No No...I did not say that ALL of life is suffering nor did I define life as suffering. This is a planet of suffering...that is what I said. Look around and everyday and you will see it...it is just a part of existing on this planet. That is why I am not signing up for this place again...I'm moving on.

Peace out everyone...be nice to each other

I grilled some artichoke hearts and asparagus on my grill this evening....Yummy!

Veggies RULE!

Last edited by TVC15; 03-06-2012 at 02:20 AM..
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Old 03-06-2012, 02:07 AM
 
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
7,348 posts, read 4,158,347 times
Reputation: 8485
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueTimbers View Post
The mystery and beauty of the natural world is well demonstrated in growing an organic vegetable.. This causes some to be spiritually moved by the realization of how earth works, some then need to find a way to rationalize the beauty of "it" hence the connection with creator/spirituality...

You gotta admit.. a good fresh veggie is quite a divine experience...
What a beautiful and right on post
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Old 03-06-2012, 07:06 AM
 
Location: Quimper Peninsula
1,625 posts, read 929,499 times
Reputation: 1319
Brocolli:
Here is my take: We all have different body chemistry, with different needs... Whether one realizes it or not the body communicates with the brain..... THIS in my mind is the point of all this talk... Not what ones beliefs are, whether, religious, spiritual, atheist or none of the above ..(Say the assumed beliefs of a bacteria.)

Can we peel away the protective layers (Classification and labeling) of skin from the onion and get down to the good part.. As I stated earlier, for me it does not matter what tools, or props one uses to advance themselves, whether it be Deva's or Jesus... The point is the experience, the impact on ourselves and things around us... No one can tell me they have never had their feelings hurt by others, or have felt a sense of joy when they made someone smile with a kind word or kind gesture.... We are interconnected in that sense... Everything around you that is a sensory input has an impact on your mental state!

I do not see meditation as a religious or spiritual thing at all... Simply a tool to focus, to clear the mind of the junk that fills it, to shut out sensory input, allowing the mind to focus... Know of course what the mind focuses on can be of spiritual or religious nature but it does not have to be..

OK back to broccoli...

Possibly those that do not like broccoli do not need or have too much of the nutrients it is high in.. Such as Vit K.., those that do need those nutrients crave it..(I do it is in my top 10 veggies). For me a big part of organic, slow food, local food movement, is it makes it easier for me to stop and think about what I am eating, to possibly listen to my body, what is it telling me......What does it need what does it crave.. IMO our natural systems for determining these things have been under attach as we have become detached from our food... YES, I use growing food and being passionate about organic as a prop a crutch, a tool, to help me appreciate what I eat, to listen to my body, to eat Parsley if my body says it wants it.. I also feel seasonal eating is important, to enjoy and indulge in what is in season, then move away from it when it is not...

Open up, listen to your body, pursue those primal cravings, follow those seasonal rhythms... They are their for a reason I believe...

Again for me, nothing tastes better, or feels more nourishing than something I grew myself and eat fresh within minuets of harvesting it..

Lastly, I will still resist this religion labeling of the primary point of this conversation... Grant it, after reading JaiJai's links on the origins of Esalen institute, a definite religious/spiritual direction was a catalyst... Again a religious nature, may have been their prop/tool to explore awareness, but just that a prop or tool, not the point or the result of the exploration..
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
2,192 posts, read 3,151,591 times
Reputation: 1938
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
There is? You mean the senses? I've got those.


Oh yeah? Do I need to accept Jesus into my heart to become aware...err...wait wrong religion......I need to meditate? How exactly does one know when they are aware? Maybe I'm already aware? Maybe I've reached super awareness where I'm no longer aware that I'm aware of my awareness.... Just a little confused about this stuff....

Anyhow, you're still preaching to me which is funny considering its pretty obvious that I'm not taking any of it seriously. Remind you of anybody?
I wasn't preaching ... just expressing myself ... just writing and "talking".
You don't "need" to do anything as far as i'm concerned.
I feel that basically whatever people do or don't do or think or don't think that makes them "happy" and / or content is cool ... as long as they're not doing harm.
Simple.
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Old 03-06-2012, 10:53 AM
Status: "crusty" (set 10 days ago)
 
Location: Hunkering down atop Shasta
6,632 posts, read 6,193,898 times
Reputation: 5024
For what it's worth, broccoli tastes much more bitter to some people because of genetic differences:
Quote:
............In the new work, researchers were able to show that different genetic versions of this same receptor, known as hTAS2R38, specifically determine people's perception of plants that synthesize glucosinolates. In their experiments, the researchers divided a test array of vegetables into those that contain glucosinolates, such as broccoli and turnips, and those that do not contain known glucosinolates. The researchers found that individuals possessing two copies of a "sensitive" version of the hTAS2R38 gene rated the glucosinolate-containing vegetables as 60% more bitter than did subjects possessing two copies of an "insensitive" version of the receptor gene. In comparison, individuals possessing one copy of each version of the gene rated the bitterness of glucosinolate-containing vegetables at an intermediate level.
The researchers found that the differences in bitterness perception by the "sensitive" and "insensitive" hTAS2R38 groups reached statistical significance for six vegetables: watercress, mustard greens, turnip, broccoli, rutabaga, and horseradish............. full article at Don't Care For Broccoli? A Bitter Taste Receptor Gene's Variation Suggests An Evolutionary Excuse
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