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Old 03-05-2012, 03:10 PM
 
7,150 posts, read 10,866,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
Not there yet, but you may get to see if it you life long enough. That amount of progress that has been achieved over the last couple of decades is amazing though and most of the theoretical issues are, I believe, decently understood at this point.

Anyhow, the nerds will supply the brains and the military will supply the $$. Its just a matter of time.
Actually, I don't disagree with a single thing you have written in this case. But not all on the same 'page' as you perhaps intended what you wrote.

Firstly, I have seen a few individuals who can control their desires and focus their minds -- and I have, figuratively, stared in wonder and awe. I find them to have been life-changing examples for me. Such people have existed for thousands of years, and still today, albeit in rather small numbers -- but they are everywhere ... not limited to ancient far-eastern mystics. But not a one of them is involved with, or in the slightest distracted by, or enamored of the Convergence.

Second I acknowledge the 'progress' and understanding of the issues of the Convergence / Singularity -- but again, only to a point. I disagree that the most significant issues -- those of ultimate meaning -- are understood. Were they understood, the progress toward the Convergence would simply stop -- as meaningless.

But absolutely yes: the nerds and the military will force the march.

Last edited by nullgeo; 03-05-2012 at 03:26 PM..
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Old 03-05-2012, 03:24 PM
 
7,150 posts, read 10,866,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
This sort of sentiment, I believe, is rooted either in personal arrogance (I can't beat it) or a lack of appreciation for how deeply propaganda is embedded in mass societies.

First though I should correct my previous statement, no adult that has grow up in a mass society can remove himself from propaganda. He was raised on it, its a part of his very being. As far as removing yourself from recent propaganda, that can only be achieved by removing all its sources but that effectively removes you from society. Those that believe they can escape it while being exposed are simply feeding on one sort while ignoring another, after all identifying propaganda when you've already got an opposing sort "installed" isn't a difficult matter...it happens by definition. For example, the liberals that think they are clever because they are able to recognize fox news as propaganda.....all while dining on a different sort every night on their computer, iphone, etc.
Not "personal arrogance" at all ... neither do I identify myself as one who has achieved such state of freedom. Also no lack of appreciation from me as to how deeply propaganda is embedded in society. You are preaching to the choir on that one. I absolutely recognize the near total infusions that our societies have been built on over time and continue to be enmeshed with today. Nevertheless, there are small numbers of people living among us who have simply 'walked away' from the effects in terms of giving the propaganda control over their lives. They must adapt to the external conditions it imposes, yes ... but able to think and feel freely beyond the tentacles? Absolutely. I do confess to aspire, myself ... but I am not holding my breath over my potential for success. I know well who I am. I can live with myself regardless.
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Old 03-05-2012, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
2,190 posts, read 6,840,754 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Very nice post, jaijai ... rep button still not responding, no matter how I push it

I appreciate your enthusiasms and sentiments, though I don't have the slightest expectation that "humanity" will evolve or embrace any "new age" ... I do, however, recognize that individuals have always, and will continue, to break free of the cycles of our past, and, in this regard, people such as Watts, and organizations such as Esalen, have made deep contributions.

The earth will survive, obviously ... and with total indifference to our species' cancerous nature.
Our species likely will not survive our own apparently boundless appetite for material growth and consumptions.
But the amorphous mystery we call 'spirit' is eternal -- beyond even the earth's life cycle.
Feeding this mysterious spirit feels like a good thing to me
... and mine seems to like raw [preferably organic] veggies an awful lot to go with its philosophical musings!
I like and agree with most of what you say.
And yes, the earth will continue with or without us.
I don't agree however that it's a lost cause.
It's that kind of defeatism (that has sunk deep into the collective psyche even if it's not ... worst because so ... consciously) that will ensure it is though.
I'm both an idealist and a realist.
It is possible for humanity as a whole to evolve though it doesn't look promising at the moment.
But miracles happen and grace happens.
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Old 03-05-2012, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Declezville, CA
16,806 posts, read 39,854,667 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaijai View Post
But miracles happen and grace happens.
No, **** happens.
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Old 03-05-2012, 04:12 PM
 
7,150 posts, read 10,866,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaijai View Post
I like and agree with most of what you say.
And yes, the earth will continue with or without us.
I don't agree however that it's a lost cause.
It's that kind of defeatism (that has sunk deep into the collective psyche even if it's not ... worst because so ... consciously) that will ensure it is though.
I'm both an idealist and a realist.
It is possible for humanity as a whole to evolve though it doesn't look promising at the moment.
But miracles happen and grace happens.
I never called it a lost cause.
I don't believe it is one, at all.
I said I don't expect success for humanity as a species in that regard.

The difference?

Simple: the act of pursuing the kind of humanist and spiritual excellence you aspire to deeply enriches the lives and spirits of both the individual attempting to enact such changes -- and those affected along the way. That, in itself, is worthy enough.

I simply don't see our species as rising to the occasion. Nor do I particularly sense there is any universal mandate toward such goals. The journey is eternal, and individual until the eternal is realized. The barriers are part of the process of realization.
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Old 03-05-2012, 04:25 PM
 
Location: San Diego
50,155 posts, read 46,811,218 times
Reputation: 33986
Vegetables

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Old 03-05-2012, 04:33 PM
 
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
2,190 posts, read 6,840,754 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_id View Post
People make fun of things, that's just what they do. But the hippie subculture is largely dead and has been replaced, in the sense that many ex-hippies have switched, into a vague religion defined around western spiritual notions. Sure they pay lip service to the east, but its just that, the notions are twisted into a western framework and that should be apparent by the fact that its mostly middle-class white folks that are into this stuff.... Its entirely bourgeois.


May have better luck if you detach your politics from your religious beliefs...Effective political movements are, almost always, secular in
nature.

But ignoring the religious gobbledygook there is a simple answer here, propaganda has become increasingly effective with more advanced communication technology. Today people are exposed to propaganda, whether state or corporate, on an almost hourly basis. And nobody can escape unless they entirely remove themselves from society....
Again, you miss the point(s) and the essence of what i've said.
People who have their minds made up and are entrenched in their attitudes and perceptions are impossible to reach and it's impossible to have any kind fruitful dialogue with them.
You have some attitudes and ideas that are rather cliche at best and generally lack any kind of sophistication or evidence of expanded awareness.
That's o.k.! But it's the lack of recognition of the degree to which you are limited that creates an arrogance that's tiring.
And again again ... I'm not political.
Caring about the world and the humans and creatures who inhabit it and hoping that people will wake up to their own nature, gain more awareness about who they essentially are and become more conscious about their thoughts and actions is not political.
It's actually, in part, a rather selfish wish on my part.
I am soooooo tired of living in a world that is constantly rocked by a discouraging degree of unconscious and heart-less / selfish / arrogant behavior.
It makes it a lot more difficult (almost too difficult) for those of us who are trying to live simply and peacefully and honorably and with care.
And yet again (second time i've said this), i'm not religious.
Do you actually carefully / thoroughly read and more importantly comprehend posts?
It seems that more often than not you respond (or rather react) in a knee jerk fashion to certain key words that your mind can easily recognize and glom onto (and then it's off and running with preconceived notions) but that you do not fully receive and comprehend the essence of what is being expressed.
You could use this forum as a way to recognize the limits of your own awareness, be more humble and try to open your mind (if only just a bit) so that you might evolve .... change ... grow ... become more human in the truest sense of that word. Just a thought.
MOD CUT

Last edited by NewToCA; 03-05-2012 at 05:10 PM.. Reason: don't escalate
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Old 03-05-2012, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
2,190 posts, read 6,840,754 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fontucky View Post
No, **** happens.
That too! Lots of it.
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Old 03-05-2012, 04:42 PM
 
Location: Central Bay Area, CA as of Jan 2010...but still a proud Texan from Houston!
7,484 posts, read 10,423,156 times
Reputation: 8955
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaijai View Post
I like and agree with most of what you say.
And yes, the earth will continue with or without us.
I don't agree however that it's a lost cause.
It's that kind of defeatism (that has sunk deep into the collective psyche even if it's not ... worst because so ... consciously) that will ensure it is though.
I'm both an idealist and a realist.
It is possible for humanity as a whole to evolve though it doesn't look promising at the moment.
But miracles happen and grace happens.
Humans have not evolved much since the Dark Ages...it is not very difficult to see the horrible things done to onto others including children, animals and the earth itself on a daily basis by humans...not much evolution from that perspective. There are very kind and gracious humans on this planet but sadly we see more of the destruction than of the peace.

The earth will only be here until our sun burns out and dies.
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Old 03-05-2012, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
2,190 posts, read 6,840,754 times
Reputation: 2076
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
I never called it a lost cause.
I don't believe it is one, at all.
I said I don't expect success for humanity as a species in that regard.

The difference?

Simple: the act of pursuing the kind of humanist and spiritual excellence you aspire to deeply enriches the lives and spirits of both the individual attempting to enact such changes -- and those affected along the way. That, in itself, is worthy enough.

I simply don't see our species as rising to the occasion. Nor do I particularly sense there is any universal mandate toward such goals. The journey is eternal, and individual until the eternal is realized. The barriers are part of the process of realization.
Yes, i understand that the struggle is part of the process of realization.
That doesn't mean that we forgo the effort to make life (inherently difficult - no avoiding it) on this planet as supportive as possible for ourselves and for each other.
The "mandate" (although that's not quite the appropriate word) is love.
Totally irrational love.
It's easy, when one has recognized or "seen through" the illusion, to be something like nihilistic.
That's the danger.
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