Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
It's not that people love their cars. They're dependent on them and they don't know there's any other way to live. Most Americans have never seen what a good public transit system looks like, so they automatically assume transit is inferior. You'd have to go to Europe or Asia to actually see what godd mass transit looks like.
With gas approaching 5 bucks a gallon - the same price as a day pass - people will see the benefits of mass transit.
With gas approaching 5 bucks a gallon - the same price as a day pass - people will see the benefits of mass transit.
Yes, at least more people will, anyway. It really irks me that it's been almost 40 years since the early '70s oil crisis and our citizens & the government have done precious little to wean ourselves from oil and auto dependency.
Have you ever ridden a dirt bike (motorcycle) or 4x4 in the desert or state forests such as Los Padres to explore and take in the challenges of driving through it? Have you ever ridden a sports motorcycle or sports car in the Santa Monica Mountain range (especially Mulholland and "the Snake" area)? Or just drive through some of the grand vistas California has? Try those first and then ask that question.
How many people in Southern California do that kind of thing every week? Some people do, but most people just drive to work and back and then go to Target and maybe go out for dinner on the weekend. Most people do those kinds of outdoorsy thing maybe once a year, or even never. As someone who doesn't drive (by choice, though I'm going to work on getting a license) it would be nice to be able to do those kinds of things, but when I consider how much money I'm saving by not driving, I'm fine with it. It depends on each individual's priorities.
The reason a certain percentage of people like vehicles in California include:
a) There are many California unique and readily accessible roads where driving on them allow you to experience how well a motorcycle or sports car handles (even at a safe speed limit of course!). The genuine experience of turning and g-forces and the interaction with a vehicle are something that a computer cannot (yet) duplicate. I have ridden a sports motorcycle through many places in the area and it is quite enjoyable!
b) There are many unique off road places to see which can be accessed by either dirt motorcycle or 4x4. Riding on dirt roads of various conditions takes some skill without crashing. Riding (actually interacting with) a dirt bike through various terrain also is a unique experience which is very enjoyable! Getting out in the woods which would take a long time by hiking is very nice also.
c) Due to the great weather we have in California, one can go through very unique vistas with the top down or on a motorcycle while 99% of others are sitting in their houses with freezing rain outside.
d) Do this while enjoying the many unique vistas California has to offer. Drive down PCH between Mugu Rock and Zuma beach in a convertible or motorcycle (like I have) once
e) Mass transit still does not take me to many of the hiking and biking trails I like to frequent.
You know, maybe just maybe there actually IS a reason SOME people genuinely like driving in California after all.
So, in short, centering our transportation culture around low-occupancy, hydrocarbon-consuming internal combustion engines that operate around 85 dB is rationalized on the basis of MAXIMIZING OUR ENJOYMENT OF NATURE? Okay...now I get it
So, in short, centering our transportation culture around low-occupancy, hydrocarbon-consuming internal combustion engines that operate around 85 dB is rationalized on the basis of MAXIMIZING OUR ENJOYMENT OF NATURE? Okay...now I get it
Thanks for taking part in pushing this thread political, and thanks for taking part it this state's war to pull people away from freedom of movement and pushing them towards travel strictly along government provided routes.
Lets not forget - public transportation requires you travel along lanes designated "ok" by our government. As soon as you alter from these routes, your life becomes harder. Some people are okay with that - but I am not.
The difference here is simple - I have no issue with public transportation, and have used extensively living in certain areas of the country. Proponents of public transportation, however, often have little issue with looking down on those who choose individual transportation over their beloved method. Lets keep an open mind to both sides of the coin, shall we?
I went two years without any real car use. I lived in a studio at the beach and used a road bike (for sport) and a Mt/Hybrid for work. If I had to pack anything I took my bike trailer. It's very capable and If I wanted to camp in the local Mts I could do it. Plus with today's technology a electric assist bike would make a lot of the short range driving very easy. I think someone could go car free quite easily if they wanted.
Thanks for taking part in pushing this thread political, and thanks for taking part it this state's war to pull people away from freedom of movement and pushing them towards travel strictly along government provided routes.
Lets not forget - public transportation requires you travel along lanes designated "ok" by our government. As soon as you alter from these routes, your life becomes harder. Some people are okay with that - but I am not.
The difference here is simple - I have no issue with public transportation, and have used extensively living in certain areas of the country. Proponents of public transportation, however, often have little issue with looking down on those who choose individual transportation over their beloved method. Lets keep an open mind to both sides of the coin, shall we?
So those are the only two options you see...individual cars or mass transit...both of which are still petroleum-dependent ways of moving people around? There are no individual-transportation options that don't depend on motors? There's walking and cycling...but I suppose dependency on those contribute to cardiovascular disease and Type 2 diabetes. Replacing natural human locomotion with sitting on your butt in a car for 30-50 hrs. a month is good for your health. And then there is the danger factor of pedestrian-to-pedestrian collisions, which claim so many lives on America's sidewalks. Additionally, walking and cycling require five-foot wide paths that eat up public right of way. Freeways and parking requirements have no land-use footprint at all. And finally, depending on vehicles that need fuel made from decayed dinosaurs is infinitely sustainable into the future, so why plan for anything else? And how important is societal sustainability anyway, when compared to individual freedom? Besides, human-powered locomotion requires that people not be physically lazy...how stupid is that?
So those are the only two options you see...individual cars or mass transit...both of which are still petroleum-dependent ways of moving people around? There are no individual-transportation options that don't depend on motors? There's walking and cycling...but I suppose dependency on those contribute to cardiovascular disease and Type 2 diabetes. Replacing natural human locomotion with sitting on your butt in a car for 30-50 hrs. a month is good for your health. And then there is the danger factor of pedestrian-to-pedestrian collisions, which claim so many lives on America's sidewalks. Additionally, walking and cycling require five-foot wide paths that eat up public right of way. Freeways and parking requirements have no land-use footprint at all. And finally, depending on vehicles that need fuel made from decayed dinosaurs is infinitely sustainable into the future, so why plan for anything else? And how important is societal sustainability anyway, when compared to individual freedom? Besides, human-powered locomotion requires that people not be physically lazy...how stupid is that?
Here's the thing - Southern California has some of the most walkable neighborhoods in the nation. Like I said before, by pure square mileage, Los Angeles has the most walkable neighborhoods other than NY and Chicago (and honestly I think LA gives Chicago a run for its money). I walk way more than I take public transportation - and the gulf is even larger between how much I walk and drive.
Don't get me started on how great the weather is for a walking lifestyle - Just on saturday the wife and I took a looong walk (six miles) to Larchmont Village and back to central Hollywood, mostly just for the exercise. Looked at the stunning architecture on Rossmore St and in Windsor Square, looked at some boutique stores on Melrose and Larchmont, and past the Paramount Studios on Gower (a road that could use some cleaning up).
So those are the only two options you see...individual cars or mass transit...both of which are still petroleum-dependent ways of moving people around? There are no individual-transportation options that don't depend on motors? There's walking and cycling...but I suppose dependency on those contribute to cardiovascular disease and Type 2 diabetes. Replacing natural human locomotion with sitting on your butt in a car for 30-50 hrs. a month is good for your health. And then there is the danger factor of pedestrian-to-pedestrian collisions, which claim so many lives on America's sidewalks. Additionally, walking and cycling require five-foot wide paths that eat up public right of way. Freeways and parking requirements have no land-use footprint at all. And finally, depending on vehicles that need fuel made from decayed dinosaurs is infinitely sustainable into the future, so why plan for anything else? And how important is societal sustainability anyway, when compared to individual freedom? Besides, human-powered locomotion requires that people not be physically lazy...how stupid is that?
If your argument is to revert to the stone age, keeping people +/-200 miles from their homes, then you win. I can't argue with this level of the notion of utopia, its just not realistic.
By the way, I put upwards of 40k miles a year on my vehicle powered by the devilish gasoline engines, and don't have cardiovascular disease or Type 2 diabetes.
So those are the only two options you see...individual cars or mass transit...both of which are still petroleum-dependent ways of moving people around? There are no individual-transportation options that don't depend on motors? There's walking and cycling...but I suppose dependency on those contribute to cardiovascular disease and Type 2 diabetes. Replacing natural human locomotion with sitting on your butt in a car for 30-50 hrs. a month is good for your health. And then there is the danger factor of pedestrian-to-pedestrian collisions, which claim so many lives on America's sidewalks. Additionally, walking and cycling require five-foot wide paths that eat up public right of way. Freeways and parking requirements have no land-use footprint at all. And finally, depending on vehicles that need fuel made from decayed dinosaurs is infinitely sustainable into the future, so why plan for anything else? And how important is societal sustainability anyway, when compared to individual freedom? Besides, human-powered locomotion requires that people not be physically lazy...how stupid is that?
And yet you contributed virtually nothing to this thread relative to the question of the original poster, which was asking about where to live in a car free area.
I at least tried to contribute towards offering how to go carless in another post. I've used Google Transit to either go on mass transit in the past or help my son do the same. Combining local transit with Amtrak's Pacific Surfliner is an awesome way to get around SoCal without a car! Sometimes it's quicker than the freeway on holiday weekends.
I also go on all day hiking and biking trips as well as the other things I've mentioned. Believe it or not, I've owned multiple bicycles (including a Lightning Cycle Dyanmics P38) over the years and participated in multiple centuries in the past. I used to ride over 100 miles a week including commuting 10 miles back and forth to work. I currently moutain bike a lot (unless I crash and burn and get sidelined).
Your posts do nothing but look down at others and seem so superior in your supposed intellect. Why don't you try to post something positive for a change? What have you accomplished by criticizing people who like to drive cars or motorcycles? Nothing. They will not read your post, nor will your posts sway anyone to jump to mass transit. Offering positive contributions will go a lot further.
Last edited by jkbatca; 03-12-2012 at 08:45 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
