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Old 03-24-2012, 07:23 PM
 
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
2,192 posts, read 3,353,346 times
Reputation: 1950

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMenscha View Post
It's my dream and my home. Such a limited viewpoint.

Might want to get over it in your spare time.
Ditto.
Good way to put it.
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Old 03-24-2012, 07:27 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,141 posts, read 16,600,758 times
Reputation: 6484
Well I'm certainly glad my ancestors dreamed about it.
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Old 03-24-2012, 08:03 PM
 
Location: The Other California
4,258 posts, read 2,493,234 times
Reputation: 1478
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaijai View Post
I detest territorialism.
No, you don't.

You quoted Luther Standing Bear's territorialism with smug approval.

What you detest is civilization.
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Old 03-24-2012, 08:19 PM
 
Location: The Other California
4,258 posts, read 2,493,234 times
Reputation: 1478
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffredo View Post
Generally speaking Butte County is not the California those speaking of the "California Dream" are referring to.
Very true. It's also true that Butte County and its neighbors have to live with what the California dreamers impose on them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffredo View Post
That's more the confines of coastal California - especially Southern.
Let's not overlook the fact that millions of ordinary people live in the southern and coastal counties for whom California is more a home than a dream. They, too, are prisoners of the dominant and suffocating "California as social experiment" paradigm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffredo View Post
If you want to remove the northern Sacramento Valley from it I don't think anyone will care or argue with you about it.
I haven't found that to be the case at all, but maybe I'm just not listening to the right people. What we need is an alliance with coastal progressives who want to cut us loose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffredo View Post
Oh, and my family has been in San Francisco for four generations - and are one of the "established families" that you speak of. The "decent moral life" we adhere to is live and let live and minding one's own business - and that's what this hard working, law abiding, tax paying gay member of that family does.
Well, good for you and your family. Unfortunately many of the state's homosexuals (and their fellow travelers) are not content to mind their own business, but instead are forcing the rest of us to condone, facilitate, and cooperate with their crimes against nature.

Last edited by WesternPilgrim; 03-24-2012 at 08:28 PM..
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Old 03-24-2012, 09:02 PM
 
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
2,192 posts, read 3,353,346 times
Reputation: 1950
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post
No, you don't.

You quoted Luther Standing Bear's territorialism with smug approval.

What you detest is civilization.
Man did you miss the point of Standing Bear's words!
Duh!
And yeah i do detest territorialism and it's typically arrogant of you to say something like "no you don't".
You implied in your original post that CA is more "yours" than those who weren't born here or don't have ancestors from California ... there was a sub-textual superiority.
Again, gross, yuck and blecccchhhh!
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Old 03-24-2012, 09:23 PM
 
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
2,192 posts, read 3,353,346 times
Reputation: 1950
This is an old post (by stillkit) that i've always appreciated.
I'm not sure if he wrote it or if he was quoting someone else.

"Never forget that the west coast was, and is, a barrier. It stopped the western migration of our history cold, dead in its tracks.

Those who perpetually moved west were the disaffected, the non-conformists, the recalcitrant, those seeking relief from responsibilities and expectations or running from the law. Those moving west were after a new life, a new beginning, a fresh start separated by a continent from the old life, from the old parameters and restraining conformity.

It still is. New generations head west for the same reasons their forefathers headed west, and they join the progeny of those previous immigrants. All of them have washed up against the Pacific Ocean and stopped. There's no place else to go.

That's why the west coast is different from the rest of America, and California in particular. The opportunities in Washington and Oregon are pretty much limited to those areas west of the Cascades, but California was, and still is, wide open, from the high deserts to the inland valleys to the coast; California is the Mecca, the Promised Land, the place where a person can begin again.

It has attracted, does attract, and WILL attract the detrious of the continent; the good alongside the bad, the decent people and the criminals, the lazy and the industrious. Anyone wanting to start over has come to California and they'll continue to come because they have no other place to go."

That's what makes California so unique!"


Of course many head to California for none of the reasons stated in that passage but enough still do.


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Old 03-24-2012, 09:47 PM
 
1,352 posts, read 1,405,834 times
Reputation: 1135
California is great.

If Western Pilgrim would leave, it'd be better!
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Old 03-24-2012, 09:51 PM
 
7,151 posts, read 4,470,690 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaijai View Post
This is an old post (by stillkit) that i've always appreciated.
I'm not sure if he wrote it or if he was quoting someone else.

"Never forget that the west coast was, and is, a barrier. It stopped the western migration of our history cold, dead in its tracks.

Those who perpetually moved west were the disaffected, the non-conformists, the recalcitrant, those seeking relief from responsibilities and expectations or running from the law. Those moving west were after a new life, a new beginning, a fresh start separated by a continent from the old life, from the old parameters and restraining conformity.

It still is. New generations head west for the same reasons their forefathers headed west, and they join the progeny of those previous immigrants. All of them have washed up against the Pacific Ocean and stopped. There's no place else to go.

That's why the west coast is different from the rest of America, and California in particular. The opportunities in Washington and Oregon are pretty much limited to those areas west of the Cascades, but California was, and still is, wide open, from the high deserts to the inland valleys to the coast; California is the Mecca, the Promised Land, the place where a person can begin again.

It has attracted, does attract, and WILL attract the detrious of the continent; the good alongside the bad, the decent people and the criminals, the lazy and the industrious. Anyone wanting to start over has come to California and they'll continue to come because they have no other place to go."

That's what makes California so unique!"


Of course many head to California for none of the reasons stated in that passage but enough still do.
Good post and quote.

I came to California because Uncle Sam sent me (age 17). I trained for war and went overseas from CA. I returned to CA, a bit beat up. I convalesced and rehabilitated in CA. Ultimately I was discharged and stayed on a while longer in CA. And what I discovered in between and following all those events was a stunningly unique society. So many true individuals! Artists and philosophers, entrepreneurs, outdoorsmen and women of every imaginable creative distinction. The progeny of the westward-seeking motivations written of in the quote of the previous post.

What I found VERY little of, was the type of narrow-minded conservatism reflective of the OP's claims of the social foundations of the state.
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Old 03-24-2012, 10:17 PM
 
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
2,192 posts, read 3,353,346 times
Reputation: 1950
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Good post and quote.

I came to California because Uncle Sam sent me (age 17). I trained for war and went overseas from CA. I returned to CA, a bit beat up. I convalesced and rehabilitated in CA. Ultimately I was discharged and stayed on a while longer in CA. And what I discovered in between and following all those events was a stunningly unique society. So many true individuals! Artists and philosophers, entrepreneurs, outdoorsmen and women of every imaginable creative distinction. The progeny of the westward-seeking motivations written of in the quote of the previous post.

What I found VERY little of, was the type of narrow-minded conservatism reflective of the OP's claims of the social foundations of the state.
Even though there are plenty of conventional people in the state, it's still a place where those of us who are not have a freedom that not many other states in this country offer (even if they do in theory). It's a freedom to be oneself without having to feel compelled to justify it or explain it or feel marginalized because of it.
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Old 03-24-2012, 10:23 PM
 
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
2,192 posts, read 3,353,346 times
Reputation: 1950
Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim View Post


Well, good for you and your family. Unfortunately many of the state's homosexuals (and their fellow travelers) are not content to mind their own business, but instead are forcing the rest of us to condone, facilitate, and cooperate with their crimes against nature.
You're such a good and loving Christian.
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