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Old 04-09-2012, 04:52 PM
 
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 3,574,258 times
Reputation: 2622

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVA1990 View Post
Nope. Neither of those qualifies under your definition as evidenced by their appearance. You want to try again? Anybody else?
a cathedral is not a structural type, a cathedral is the home of a Bishop, a bishopric, California had two in colonial days, at different times.

San Carlos and Loreto.
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Old 04-09-2012, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,141 posts, read 16,582,958 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fontucky View Post
2 bell towers at Santa Barb.
Bingo! At one time that was the distinguishing feature of a cathedral church. The cathedral in Santa Fe is another example.

highnlite: I don't believe there was a bishop seated at the current San Carlos mission church in Carmel nor was there ever one at Loreto. San Carlos the cathedral in Monterey was never a mission church. Please correct me though if I'm wrong about any of that.
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Old 04-09-2012, 08:02 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fontucky View Post
2 bell towers at Santa Barb.
It's clear you went through a superior school system.
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Old 04-09-2012, 08:12 PM
 
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 3,574,258 times
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According to the quotes below San Carlos was known as the Cathedral of San Carlos. A cathedral is a Bishopric. Cathedra being the term for Bishops seat.

I have found a number of references to Mision de Nuestra Senora de Loreto at Loreto being a Cathedral, that it was the head of California missions for over 100 years, speaks to the likely hood of it being a Bishopric or Cathedra

Quote:
The original site continued to operate as the "Royal Presidio Chapel" and later became the Cathedral of San Carlos Borromeo. "Mission Carmel" (as it came to be known) was Serra's favorite and, being close to Monterey (the capital of Alta California), served as his headquarters. When he died on August 28, 1784, he was interred beneath the chapel floor.
Quote:
The Cathedral of San Carlos Borromeo, also known as the Royal Presidio Chapel, is a Roman Catholic cathedral located in Monterey, California, United States. The cathedral is the oldest continuously operating parish and the oldest stone building in California.
Santa Barbara Mission was not a Cathedra in Spanish or Mexican times except the last 6 years, 1840 to 1846.
It was a Cathedra from 1840 to 1849 and again from 1853 to 1876. The second bell tower was constructed in 1831, nine years before it became a cathedra.

San Xavier Del Bac (I think the most beautiful of all missions) had two bell towers but was not a cathedral.
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Old 04-09-2012, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
14,141 posts, read 16,582,958 times
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But the cathedral in Monterey was never a mission church. It's confusing because it shares the same saint's name as with the mission church in Carmel.

As far as San Xavier del Bac which is not and never was in CA, it has two towers but as far as I can tell only one of the two ever served as a bell tower. The other has an open top. That would also explain the two towers at Santa Barbara, which would have been only both been equipped with bells when it became a cathedral.

Loreto was founded and operated for quite some time by Jesuits, Francisans and Domenicans, which would indicate it was not a bishop's church.

I believe Santa Barbara is the only California mission church that served as a cathedral.

Last edited by CAVA1990; 04-09-2012 at 08:48 PM..
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Old 04-09-2012, 08:43 PM
 
Location: San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara Counties
6,390 posts, read 3,574,258 times
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I got that on the two San Carlos Borromeo

Serra first established the mission in Monterey, but, he wanted his mission further away from the soldiers at the Presido, and was having problems with the governor, so he left the monterey as a sub church and built a whole new mission, at what is now Carmel.

San Xavier Del Bac has two domed bell towers.

Interesting story on San Xavier, it was abandoned from 1826 to 1859. The story is that the local indians forgot who and why it was built and lived in superstitious fear of the building for years.

The photo you saw with an uncovered bell tower was likely the image taken in 1902 prior to major restoration.

Last edited by .highnlite; 04-09-2012 at 08:52 PM..
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Old 04-09-2012, 08:56 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and Nowhere
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i'll go out on a limb and speculate that some churches with dual towers were built with the expectation or contingency that they would become a diocesan seat. The bells in the second tower would only be added if that came to pass.
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Old 04-09-2012, 10:54 PM
 
Location: T-BAY, ONTARIO
30 posts, read 20,517 times
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Heres a interesting building
(Crystal Cathedral)

I prefer the interior over the exterior....
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:13 AM
 
Location: SW MO Aux Arcs
19,338 posts, read 16,720,612 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ke11y View Post
Heres a interesting building
(Crystal Cathedral)

I prefer the interior over the exterior....
And look how that turned out!

But in the day, they did provide some good theatrics.
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Old 04-10-2012, 09:22 AM
Status: "Save a Black Son, take his gun. Hands up, dont shoot." (set 14 hours ago)
 
20,830 posts, read 13,649,084 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post
And look how that turned out!

But in the day, they did provide some good theatrics.
Interesting how that turned out.

When we last visited CC in 2009 I commented to the wife how nice it would be to attended Mass there. Guess it won't be too much longer till that can occur.

It is a stunning piece of architecture.
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