CA parents may need doctor's "permission" to opt out of vaccinations (credit, move)

[WesternPilgrim]

I've focused on abortion, but there are other reasons to limit vaccinations. I'm convinced that there probably does exist a link to autism and other disorders. There are too many stories to dismiss the link out of hand. Few of us have a grasp of what goes into these vaccines or what the risks are. The number of "recommended" vaccines just keeps going up and up, and the state is getting increasingly heavy-handed about it. That should make everyone a little nervous.

[WesternPilgrim]

Originally Posted by DMenscha

I was raised in a Christian Science family. As such I never was vaccinated due to that particular exemption. Polio was the major deal back then. When my kids were vaccinated, I had to stay well clear of them for a week in order not to contract the disease.

Should pose an interesting dilemma to CS parents, who avoid the medical profession whenever possible.

BTW, I have the most incredible immune system.

Which brings up another point: vaccines actually suppress the immune system. Specific immunity to certain diseases comes at the expense of depressed overall immunity. That may explain why your immune system is so healthy.

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim

So - we at least agree on this as a policy matter. And yet you barge in here guns-a-blazing when in fact we're on the same side.

I didn't "barge in with guns-a-blazing" at all ... if you go back and look at my first response, I didn't attack your position at all ... I merely took a humorous jab at you for posting another in your series of moral fear and outrage topics.

Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim

No common ground whatsoever? And you find "everything about me detestable"? Truly, I'm crushed.

But this is just foolishness on your part. Because it's false. I can't think of a single person IRL with whom I can't find at least a little bit of common ground, no matter how strong our disagreements. Such a radical rejection of common ground can stem only from hate.

Don't be such a hater, Null. Life is short.

Correct: no common ground. Our reasons for our positions are not commonly founded.

As I have noted a number of times in the past when you have added your cute little line about not being "a hater": this from the man who hates selected others / groups as viciously as anyone on this forum ... this from the man who compares homosexuals to murderers, adulterers, and cat-torturers ... and then justifies himself righteously by virtue of his religious dogma.

I wouldn't trust you in any regard as far as I can throw an elephant. If you were in the military, I would expect you to be killed by your own troops at the first sign of any engagement with an enemy -- to get you out of the way. There is an old saying that the most dangerous person in a firefight is the man behind you. While it is true that men and women who fight together typically bond in spite of differences, anyone who can't be trusted -- such as someone intractably judgmental of others -- is a liability. I would never allow you to stand behind me.

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim

I understand that is your view of things. I'm all-too-familiar with the rationalization process.

Actually, I don't think you are in the slightest familiar with rationalization ... your entire world view is 100% dictated by your blind allegiance to your church dogma ... not a thing rational about that. Anyone with any understanding of rational process would not be the true believer that you are.

Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim

What I don't understand is why you would have no sympathy for a Jew who found the idea of using such a vaccine to be viscerally and morally repugnant. It's one thing not to agree with him; it's another thing to be so detached from basic human morality as to be unsympathetic.

To lack sympathy is simply the absence of sympathy. It is not an attack or condemnation or judgement or even a lack of respect.

[TheCalifornianWriter]

I don't want to start any kind of disagreement here, but one thing I've noticed (albeit it is not related to THIS argument) is the fact that no matter what WesternPilgrim posts, no matter the issue, you guys always attack him.
You know who you are (rhymes with 'dull-theo', 'my-a-blight', basically). I mean abortion issues don't JUST connect with the Catholics or other Christians necessarily, yet you always mention it. You probably cannot even enter a conversation with WesternPilgrim without thinking of it.
I don't mean to offend, but from the outside in, it's all to clear.

As for the issue: I believe vaccines and getting them is a choice. Maybe a smart one.
Vaccines can be dangerous:
Basically, vaccines contain either killed viruses or bacteria, germ components, toxic extracts or live organisms that have been made less virulent--a process called attenuation. To stimulate an enhanced immune reaction against these organisms, manufacturers added powerful immune-stimulating substances such as squalene, aluminum, lipopolysacchride, etc. These are called immune adjuvants.

The process of vaccination usually required repeated injections of the vaccine over a set period of time. The combination of adjuvants plus the intended organism triggers an immune response by the body, similar to that occurring with natural infections, except for one major difference. Almost none of these diseases enter the body by injection. Most enter by way of the mucous membranes of the nose, mouth, pulmonary passages or GI tract. For example, polio is known to enter via the GI tract. The membranes lining these passages contain a different immune system than activated by direct injection. This system is called the IgA immune system.

It is the first line of defense and helps reduce the need for intense activation of the body’s immune system. Often, the IgA system can completely head off an attack. The point being that injecting organisms to induce immunity is abnormal.

More and more reports are appearing citing vaccine failure, their manufacturers’ answer is to make the vaccines more potent. They do this by making the immune adjuvants more powerful or adding more of them. The problem with this approach is that in the very young, the nutritionally deficient and the aged, over-stimulating the immune system can have an opposite effect--it can paralyze the immune system. Essentially, vaccines have been found to affect the brain in odd ways, including the brain’s immune system cells, which, once activated, begin to move about the nervous system, secreting immune chemicals (called cytokines) and pouring out an enormous amount of free radicals in an effort to kill invading organisms. The problem is--there are no invading organisms. It has been tricked by the vaccine into believing there are.

With that comes child brain immune over-activation. It has been shown to be particularly damaging to the amygdala and other limbic structures of the brain. This can lead to unusual syndromes such as the loss of "theory of mind" and " Alice in Wonderland syndrome." It has also been shown to damage the executive functions of the frontal lobes.
Vaccination is dangerous...but only when done too early and in excess.



Sorry if that was a bit lengthy, but I had to.

[TheCalifornianWriter]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

I wouldn't trust you in any regard as far as I can throw an elephant. If you were in the military, I would expect you to be killed by your own troops at the first sign of any engagement with an enemy -- to get you out of the way. There is an old saying that the most dangerous person in a firefight is the man behind you. While it is true that men and women who fight together typically bond in spite of differences, anyone who can't be trusted -- such as someone intractably judgmental of others -- is a liability. I would never allow you to stand behind me.

What the hell is that?? You psychopath!

I mean if I get an infraction/warning/chiding for THIS COMMENT, I demand to know what you'll get for that! You'll expect murder to happen to someone for being different than you???
You have just overstepped yourself! That's an outrageous thing to say and I hope you realize it.

[WesternPilgrim]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

Correct: no common ground. Our reasons for our positions are not commonly founded.

You put your trousers on one leg at a time, Null. (Metaphorically speaking.)

Unless you are completely insane we do have philosophical common ground. The only common ground required for a productive conversation consists of three things:

Belief that:

1. Truth exists.
2. Truth is knowable.
3. Truth matters.

You believe that you exist, for example - or at least that your own thoughts exist. Therefore you believe in objective reality of some sort. You believe that it is possible for me to know that you exist. And you believe that your existence matters. That's a pretty good start.

Originally Posted by nullgeo

As I have noted a number of times in the past when you have added your cute little line about not being "a hater": this from the man who hates selected others / groups as viciously as anyone on this forum ... this from the man who compares homosexuals to murderers, adulterers and cat-torturers ... and then justifies himself righteously by virtue of his religious dogma.

Ah, but you are quite wrong. I don't hate anyone - not even murderers, adulterers, or cat torturers. Or homosexuals. As an accomplished sinner myself, with an equally disturbing record of misdeeds, I have a certain amount of sympathy for all of them. And that is why, despite your casual slander, I have never "justified myself" or proclaimed my own righteousness in this forum. But a spade is spade, no matter who it belongs to, and an honest man won't shy away from the truth.

[WesternPilgrim]

Originally Posted by TheCalifornianWriter

I don't want to start any kind of disagreement here, but one thing I've noticed (albeit it is not related to THIS argument) is the fact that no matter what WesternPilgrim posts, no matter the issue, you guys always attack him.
You know who you are (rhymes with 'dull-theo', 'my-a-blight', basically). I mean abortion issues don't JUST connect with the Catholics or other Christians necessarily, yet you always mention it. You probably cannot even enter a conversation with WesternPilgrim without thinking of it.
I don't mean to offend, but from the outside in, it's all to clear.

Thanks for noticing, TCW.

Great and informative comment on vaccines, as well.

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by TheCalifornianWriter

What the hell is that?? You psychopath!

I mean if I get an infraction/warning/chiding for THIS COMMENT, I demand to know what you'll get for that! You'll expect murder to happen to someone for being different than you???
You have just overstepped yourself! That's an outrageous thing to say and I hope you realize it.

Obviously you have either never been in the military (most likely) or at least never in a combat unit. I made an opinionated observation -- not a threat, nor even an advocation. I have served in intense combat at repetitive length. I have experienced the truth of which I write. Note I did not say I participated. Certain types of people do not survive combat. Some for heroic reasons. Some for stupidity. Some for bad luck (most). And some because they are untrustworthy which makes them dangerous to their own.

[WesternPilgrim]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

If you were in the military, I would expect you to be killed by your own troops at the first sign of any engagement with an enemy -- to get you out of the way. There is an old saying that the most dangerous person in a firefight is the man behind you. While it is true that men and women who fight together typically bond in spite of differences, anyone who can't be trusted -- such as someone intractably judgmental of others -- is a liability. I would never allow you to stand behind me.

Stunning. You are insane after all. I think it's finally time to use C-D's ignore function. Let's see, "My Settings" ....