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Old 04-29-2012, 08:11 PM
 
983 posts, read 1,114,777 times
Reputation: 417

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Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy View Post
Lol? Since you stalk me so much, you'd know the date is already set ... Later this year. Plan on doing a nice cross country trip :-D. I'll pass the 'keep it real' batton when i leave.. I'm sure the usuals will continue to stalk and bash on anyone who talks about california's issues far after i leave and stop posting. Any comments on the article?
Suppose to be a big Hurricane season, don't wait too late. You surely don't want to miss out on the fireworks, I may be gone by then or still here in Miami dealing with the looters sweating it out with no power. I was through all of them since Andrew, missed out on that one lol!
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Old 04-29-2012, 08:32 PM
 
983 posts, read 1,114,777 times
Reputation: 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy View Post
No comments on the article per usual .. And more redirection . I love my fans.. They are such a colorful bunch
You need to post your views on a Linux or Windows Forum. Most Anti-Apple nerds are Google Android users, at least in my workplace. Take it or leave it, Apple won't be doing business in China at the levels they are now in the not too distant future, they may lose the rights to use "iPad" in China and labor rates are rising to levels in China that will start cutting into their bottom line sooner or later. They have a plant in Brazil making iPads so that's a start.

A good read for you:

Should Apple Make Its Products In The U.S.? | Cult of Mac

Excerpt:


In the piece, an anonymous Apple executive says the company “shouldn’t be criticized for using Chinese workers” because “the U.S. has stopped producing people with the skills we need.”

Indeed, in Walter Isaacson’s biography of Jobs, there’s a description of a conversation he had with President Barack Obama during dinner in Silicon Valley. Obama asked Jobs what it would take to make Apple’s products in the U.S.; Jobs replied that it wasn’t cheap labor or government regulation, but a lack of skilled labor.

Jobs told Obama that the country needed more trained engineers, especially those from overseas who get degrees in the U.S. but are forced to leave after graduation.

Obama replied that the immigration reform bill was tied up in Congress, which annoyed Jobs. He later told Isaacson: “The president is very smart, but he kept explaining to us reasons why things can’t get done… It infuriates me.”


-------------------------------------------------------

Like I said to you before, the flood gates are open, there is not turning back now. If and when they allow the flood of H1-B's holders into the country, the proverbial stuff will hit the fan. I pity the kids in college or late in high school who are pursuing Engineering, with attitudes like this who would even want to pursue the field anymore? Getting a internship is hard enough, imagine trying to compete with H1-B holders and etc.
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Old 04-30-2012, 12:12 AM
 
2,312 posts, read 1,630,755 times
Reputation: 1208
Quote:
Originally Posted by blauskies View Post
You need to post your views on a Linux or Windows Forum. Most Anti-Apple nerds are Google Android users, at least in my workplace. Take it or leave it, Apple won't be doing business in China at the levels they are now in the not too distant future, they may lose the rights to use "iPad" in China and labor rates are rising to levels in China that will start cutting into their bottom line sooner or later. They have a plant in Brazil making iPads so that's a start.

A good read for you:

Should Apple Make Its Products In The U.S.? | Cult of Mac

Excerpt:


In the piece, an anonymous Apple executive says the company “shouldn’t be criticized for using Chinese workers” because “the U.S. has stopped producing people with the skills we need.”

Indeed, in Walter Isaacson’s biography of Jobs, there’s a description of a conversation he had with President Barack Obama during dinner in Silicon Valley. Obama asked Jobs what it would take to make Apple’s products in the U.S.; Jobs replied that it wasn’t cheap labor or government regulation, but a lack of skilled labor.

Jobs told Obama that the country needed more trained engineers, especially those from overseas who get degrees in the U.S. but are forced to leave after graduation.

Obama replied that the immigration reform bill was tied up in Congress, which annoyed Jobs. He later told Isaacson: “The president is very smart, but he kept explaining to us reasons why things can’t get done… It infuriates me.”


-------------------------------------------------------

Like I said to you before, the flood gates are open, there is not turning back now. If and when they allow the flood of H1-B's holders into the country, the proverbial stuff will hit the fan. I pity the kids in college or late in high school who are pursuing Engineering, with attitudes like this who would even want to pursue the field anymore? Getting a internship is hard enough, imagine trying to compete with H1-B holders and etc.
Anyone who works in tech understands this nonsense to be utter. Bullsh*t. Such nonsense excuses might for some reason work and convince the avg joe but people in the know understand this is a b.s point of argument used by execs to widen profit margins ... A simple sliding wage .. Go from $1 an hour and keep increasing to $100/hr and see how many qualiifed people apply.. Because jobs says it .. It must be true? -_-) give me a break... And for every 10 'we need a coding god' reqs out the 1/2 or more could be done by a freshman out of a c.s program.. Its pure nonsense trivial work.. So you really belive some suit who says he cant find people skilled enough to put a part in a testbench ? Plug in cables? Give me a break. Its 100% to do with cost and regulation.. Which is why, of the chip fabs (amd/intel) in the us .. Almost none are in calif an many in texas.. Hint : cost/regulation. Further in dont know if youve been following but foxconn plans to eleminate hundreds of thousands of workers in coming years and replace them with robots because ,now that costs have risen, robots can do it cheaper.

P.s - have nothing against apple and could careless about fanboyism .. Am a shareholder and made 146%+ on may/june 585 options.. Everyone said they would miss but were ignoring asian sales growth..

It's really sad that people believe the b.s these executives spew about not caring only about costs/profit.. But if they want to . F*** it, trade the stock because they will be beasting earnings. So, while i think its f'd what apple and many corps do.. If no one is going to make things right and believe their b.s then its a trade .. Citigroup .. Bp .. So many

P.s.s - posted from an iphone
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Old 04-30-2012, 12:57 AM
 
2,312 posts, read 1,630,755 times
Reputation: 1208
Quote:
Originally Posted by blauskies View Post
apple discussion....
For your edification ...

On Manufacturing :



Foxconn.. Apple's main assembler ...
Foxconn to replace workers with 1 million robots in 3 years

Costs is all its about.. Meet their replacements :


Pictures and videos

Rising wages ... the cheap human labor gets replaced too ... It's all about costs...

Here is the super difficult assembly that requires amazing skills :
..
Starting salary $14/day. If you believe apple doesn't manuf. here due to cost/regulation, I have a bridge to sell you. Robots could do it right now but human labor is cheaper <- statement backed by long term foxconn plan driven by rising wages. As far as software engineering jobs, as I have stated.. Most could be done after a freshman course in programming .. few jobs actually require what is stated in the reqs... H1B-Visas..because not enough skills... again.. yet another b.s excuse by corporations.. No mention of the discriminatory practices once enough H1b-visas are at a company and create 'huddles' and promote and hire their own... Lacking are apprenticeships and training programs.. But the incredible thing, if you have privy to corporate information, is that they have such programs overseas in India/China... But Americans... Nah, can't have that. It's a farce/joke which many people believe .. Such is the world .. profits are at records as a result and knowing this, one can make money by investing in such corps.

As for a well educated American engineer, they tend to understand the world so don't have pity for them .. They get in and work this skewed setup many times over to their advantage. A side path is opened so they can mess you over, but the intelligent engineers find a way to traverse that path just the same and take advantage back.

Last edited by yeahthatguy; 04-30-2012 at 01:23 AM..
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Old 04-30-2012, 11:15 AM
Status: "It's 5 o'clock somewhere." (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Mountain Ranch, CA The heart of Calaveras County
6,127 posts, read 11,455,012 times
Reputation: 4886
Following the tax law is exactly what most corporations hire experts to do. If the law says they can do what they are doing legally, then the tax law must be screwed up.

Blame the law not the corporation following it.
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Old 04-30-2012, 11:58 AM
 
983 posts, read 1,114,777 times
Reputation: 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy View Post
Anyone who works in tech understands this nonsense to be utter. Bullsh*t. Such nonsense excuses might for some reason work and convince the avg joe but people in the know understand this is a b.s point of argument used by execs to widen profit margins ... A simple sliding wage .. Go from $1 an hour and keep increasing to $100/hr and see how many qualiifed people apply.. Because jobs says it .. It must be true? -_-) give me a break... And for every 10 'we need a coding god' reqs out the 1/2 or more could be done by a freshman out of a c.s program.. Its pure nonsense trivial work.. So you really belive some suit who says he cant find people skilled enough to put a part in a testbench ? Plug in cables? Give me a break. Its 100% to do with cost and regulation.. Which is why, of the chip fabs (amd/intel) in the us .. Almost none are in calif an many in texas.. Hint : cost/regulation. Further in dont know if youve been following but foxconn plans to eleminate hundreds of thousands of workers in coming years and replace them with robots because ,now that costs have risen, robots can do it cheaper.

P.s - have nothing against apple and could careless about fanboyism .. Am a shareholder and made 146%+ on may/june 585 options.. Everyone said they would miss but were ignoring asian sales growth..

It's really sad that people believe the b.s these executives spew about not caring only about costs/profit.. But if they want to . F*** it, trade the stock because they will be beasting earnings. So, while i think its f'd what apple and many corps do.. If no one is going to make things right and believe their b.s then its a trade .. Citigroup .. Bp .. So many

P.s.s - posted from an iphone
I know it's BS but trust me I hear it all the time down here, I read articles on the South Florida Business Journal and hear many "suits" and "CEOs" stating that there is a serious issue here with finding qualified/skilled/experienced people here to fill the jobs. Thing is they don't often want to relocate and some jobs say "local candidates only".
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Old 04-30-2012, 12:06 PM
 
983 posts, read 1,114,777 times
Reputation: 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy View Post
For your edification ...

On Manufacturing :



Foxconn.. Apple's main assembler ...
Foxconn to replace workers with 1 million robots in 3 years

Costs is all its about.. Meet their replacements :


Pictures and videos

Rising wages ... the cheap human labor gets replaced too ... It's all about costs...

Here is the super difficult assembly that requires amazing skills :
..
Starting salary $14/day. If you believe apple doesn't manuf. here due to cost/regulation, I have a bridge to sell you. Robots could do it right now but human labor is cheaper <- statement backed by long term foxconn plan driven by rising wages. As far as software engineering jobs, as I have stated.. Most could be done after a freshman course in programming .. few jobs actually require what is stated in the reqs... H1B-Visas..because not enough skills... again.. yet another b.s excuse by corporations.. No mention of the discriminatory practices once enough H1b-visas are at a company and create 'huddles' and promote and hire their own... Lacking are apprenticeships and training programs.. But the incredible thing, if you have privy to corporate information, is that they have such programs overseas in India/China... But Americans... Nah, can't have that. It's a farce/joke which many people believe .. Such is the world .. profits are at records as a result and knowing this, one can make money by investing in such corps.

As for a well educated American engineer, they tend to understand the world so don't have pity for them .. They get in and work this skewed setup many times over to their advantage. A side path is opened so they can mess you over, but the intelligent engineers find a way to traverse that path just the same and take advantage back.
That ABB robot is only doing simple pick and place, not anything near the level of the sub-components used in an iPhone or other handset, I like to see it insert a flex into a connector. This is nothing new. They have been using automation and robotics for years. Robot is still dumb and requires someone to program and teach it, along with fixing it when it breaks down.
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Old 04-30-2012, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Police State
1,472 posts, read 1,215,695 times
Reputation: 1222
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy View Post
No comments on the article per usual .. And more redirection . I love my fans.. They are such a colorful bunch
You don't expect Nully to actually stay on topic when facts surface that derail his worldview do you? Nah, ad-hominems are so much easier.
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:33 PM
 
983 posts, read 1,114,777 times
Reputation: 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy View Post
For your edification ...

On Manufacturing :


“Not long ago, many companies regarded China as the low-cost default option for manufacturing,” observed Michael Zinser, a BCG partner who leads the firm’s manufacturing work in the Americas. “This survey shows that companies are coming to the conclusion surprisingly fast that the U.S. is becoming more competitive when the total costs of manufacturing are accounted for.”

Report: Third Of Large Manufacturers Considering Reshoring | News | Manufacturing.net
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Old 04-30-2012, 04:03 PM
 
2,312 posts, read 1,630,755 times
Reputation: 1208
Quote:
Originally Posted by blauskies View Post
That ABB robot is only doing simple pick and place, not anything near the level of the sub-components used in an iPhone or other handset, I like to see it insert a flex into a connector. This is nothing new. They have been using automation and robotics for years. Robot is still dumb and requires someone to program and teach it, along with fixing it when it breaks down.
Question : Do you have any formal education in robotics/3d-kinematics/machine learning/machine vision ?

Question : Are you making informed statements or are you just making knee jerk comments?

First, you endorsed the statements by apple that they don't locate manuf. jobs here because they can't find skilled workers.. I show you a video that shows there is absolutely no skill involved and is manual labor ...
[Your point refuted]

I post an article showing Foxconn (Apple's leading manuf.) plans on eliminating hundreds of thousands of manuf. jobs due to increased labor costs and will replace them w/ robots ... Obviously, due to the fact that labor is cheaper than investing in capital equipment, they are not using the current level of robotics capability in their manuf..
[Your above comment in the context of this discussion is thus wrong]

Some of the newer robots have 15 axis .. Stretch your arms out and tell me how many you have .. you have 3 ..

3-d kinematics is 3-d kinematics .. If you truly understood what you were saying, you'd understand how groundbreaking the frida robot is ..

If 20 workers are reduced to 2 robots and 1 assistant .. 19 jobs just got destroyed.. Please don't get into rabbit hole discussions about : someone needs to make the robot and program and maintain it .. the worker reduction is still huge..

Foxconn eliminates 400,000 jobs and it only takes 2000 people and some robots to back fill them .. In net, unskilled workers are replaced w/ robots.

Coming back full circle : Apple doesn't locate manuf. here due to costs/regulation (period).

As for your 'i'd love to see a robot do' ... Here.. enjoy the show :




If you knew much about the industry you'd know that robots are fully capable of something as mundane as placing a flex cable .. You have 3 axis for your arm.. Some robots have over 15 .. and are more precise .. Coupled with machine vision and in the context of manufacturing, they are capable of what most humans do and more...

Currently foxconn uses an incredible amount of unskilled human labor because its cheaper than robots .. As they have stated, they will be replacing hundres of thousands w/ robots going into the future .. and, every year robotics capabilities increase. So, yes, robots are capable of placing a flex cable..

The point is : the human labor is unskilled unlike the lie apple states.
Robots can do the broad majority of it : Human labor reduction.
Apple doesn't do it in the U.S because of costs/regulation
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