Brain drain: even college students are fleeing California (Stockton, Berkeley: job market, high school)

[DynamoLA]

Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim

I have expressed an opinion that I think is intuitively reasonable. You don't agree? Then offer a counter-opinion with reasons.

Here are my reasons:

1. Going out of state for college is an additional hardship logistically, financially, and socially. It requires a higher level of motivation and commitment on the part of the student and his or her family. That higher level motivation correlates - not always, but more often than not - with higher quality students.

This is an opinion, not a fact or "statistic". If the individual is going out of state because the in-state schools are too EXPENSIVE, how does this correlate with your assertion that it is harder financially?

2. Bright students with bright futures are being encouraged by their families to leave the state. How do I know this? Anecdotally.

This is an opinion, not a fact or "statistic". Anecdotes are irrelevant. Since Cal, Stanford, UCLA, USC, Cal Tech, Cal Poly, etc etc etc are not "wanting" for students, it is safe to assume CA universities still teach many of CA's best and brightest. And: bright students with bright futures have ALWAYS gone to school outside the state. These days there are a LOT more potential students than there were 10 or 20 years ago.

3. The best jobs are out of state, and local graduates have a better chance at landing local jobs. It makes sense for those seeking high paying careers to attend college where the jobs are.

This is actually untrue -- it depends on the career path you want to take. North Dakota has some incredibly high-paying jobs right now but it doesn't mean students have to go to North Dakota State University.

4. On the UC side, as Ruth4Truth pointed out, the quality of education has suffered due to internal structural changes - the trend toward graduate students replacing professors in the classroom. Students may be leaving the state systems for reasons of quality.

This is the only part of your opinion that I can agree with. I have no doubt that quality has decreased at some schools. But I think the biggest problem is the reduction of classes, so potential students aren't accepted. Hence why apparently people cannot get into San Diego State, but can get into Arizona State.

So I have expressed an opinion, with reasons to support it. If you disagree, fire away and tell me why.

For someone who snidely told me I needed to take a "statistics" class, your opinion is almost entirely made up of non-factual conjecture and anecdotes. I am unsurprised by this.

[WesternPilgrim]

Originally Posted by RonnieJonez

That's not true, I went to Univ of Iowa, and a significant percent were from Chicago (mainly Chicago suburbs). The majority (over 90%) of them returned back home after college.

Let's put together three post-2007 coalescing trends:

Nationwide, fewer students are attending college out-of-state.

Of those who do, more are returning home after graduation.

The composite picture emerging here is that, overall, during this recession people are choosing home. Fewer leave home in the first place, and of those who do, more come back when they graduate.

California, however, throws a monkey wrench into this picture. More Californians are attending college out-of-state. This trend is consistent with out-migration increases among other groups leaving California.

Question: Given the above, do you think that Californians who leave for college are more or less likely to return?

[twins4lynn]

"Boise State saw its freshmen enrollment from California rise tenfold during the last decade. Arizona State doubled its enrollment of freshmen from California. The University of Oregon has quadrupled it, with freshman enrollment from California growing from 280 in 2000 to 1,100 in 2010.

Not surprising.

Both out of state colleges mentioned in the article participate in the Western Undergraduate Exchange program. California students who meet admission requirements can attend for roughly 1.5 the tuition costs (not regular out of state costs). Can be quite a saving cost wise if you can grad in 4 years (unlike some of our CSU's).

[evergraystate]

Originally Posted by twins4lynn

"Boise State saw its freshmen enrollment from California rise tenfold during the last decade. Arizona State doubled its enrollment of freshmen from California. The University of Oregon has quadrupled it, with freshman enrollment from California growing from 280 in 2000 to 1,100 in 2010.

Not surprising.

Both out of state colleges mentioned in the article participate in the Western Undergraduate Exchange program. California students who meet admission requirements can attend for roughly 1.5 the tuition costs (not regular out of state costs). Can be quite a saving cost wise if you can grad in 4 years (unlike some of our CSU's).

WesternPilgrim is immune to facts. He's already working on tomorrows anti California troll thread.

[dculross]

Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim

One wonders who will be left in ten years ...

in ten years california schools will be almost 100% Indians (from India). all others (blacks,whites,asians,etc) will be out of the picture by then.

[blauskies]

Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim

I have expressed an opinion that I think is intuitively reasonable. You don't agree? Then offer a counter-opinion with reasons.

Here are my reasons:

3. The best jobs are out of state, and local graduates have a better chance at landing local jobs. It makes sense for those seeking high paying careers to attend college where the jobs are.



So I have expressed an opinion, with reasons to support it. If you disagree, fire away and tell me why.

"Best Jobs" in what? Be more specific, from a tech standpoint, I would not say there are "better" opportunities for graduates outside of CA on the grand scale.

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by WesternPilgrim

Home-grown Asian students with top SAT scores represent the majority of in-state CSU admissions? You've got to be joking. Source, please.

They do at UC Berkeley, that's been all over the press for decades.

[yeahthatguy]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

They do at UC Berkeley, that's been all over the press for decades.

Mess with immigration and import a heavily skewed number of 'cream of the crop' individuals from country's with 3x our population into a specific geography of America and this should be expected in the short term over multiple generations... Allow a tightly structured/educated ethnic minority group to swell the numbers in specific geographic areas and you should expect other things as well. In such local geographies, esp. in norcal they are no longer minorities and are in many cases the majority.. In such geographies, prosperity is high, school quality high, and the social fabric strong to nurture top college applicants ... one would should expect these #'s combined with the skewed international student body to be reflected in 'dominance' in colleges in such local regions.

If social interactions, collaboration, etc are impacted negatively by such a dominance of these individuals in local areas, one would expect a potential factor in one seeking education elsewhere, regardless of competency, to be in search of a different social climate.

[TheCalifornianWriter]

These kind of things happen. Recently, many students from California left for out of state colleges, but at least an equal amount has probably entered. And to be honest, the top students would probably go to more prestigious out-of-state universities anyway.

I do, however, get the drift of what Western Pilgrim is saying. Are our best and brightest minds leaving? Maybe, but who's to say that there won't be others in the groups coming in?

[TheCalifornianWriter]

Originally Posted by twins4lynn

"Boise State saw its freshmen enrollment from California rise tenfold during the last decade. Arizona State doubled its enrollment of freshmen from California. The University of Oregon has quadrupled it, with freshman enrollment from California growing from 280 in 2000 to 1,100 in 2010.

Not surprising.

Both out of state colleges mentioned in the article participate in the Western Undergraduate Exchange program. California students who meet admission requirements can attend for roughly 1.5 the tuition costs (not regular out of state costs). Can be quite a saving cost wise if you can grad in 4 years (unlike some of our CSU's).

I know that for many people going to college in SoCal, Oregon is one of the most popular destination. I don't know why; family ties, preference, sports?

But in California there are several colleges and universities that are much better than Oregon.