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Old 05-11-2012, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
13,474 posts, read 16,344,748 times
Reputation: 5319

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMenscha View Post
I'm pretty sure that program is either now funded by the 26 Billion dollar settlement against the banks or reimbursed by that settlement. I don't have the time to dig up a link now, I'll look for it tomorrow.
I'm pretty sure that this isn't correct, and all of the subsequent discussions about "getting even with the banks" isn't relevant to this funding give away.

The terms of the $26 billion bank settlement specifically excluded mortgages held by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac:

However, mortgages owned by the government’s housing finance agencies, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, will not be covered under the deal, excluding about half the nation’s mortgages.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/09/bu...pagewanted=all


However, this give away specifically includes those Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae held mortgages, and seems to predate that settlement:

Loans backed by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are potentially eligible for principal reduction under this program.

The money is coming from a $2 billion grant the state was awarded in 2010 from the U.S. Treasury Department's Hardest Hit Fund.


Underwater California homeowners to get more help
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Old 05-11-2012, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
13,474 posts, read 16,344,748 times
Reputation: 5319
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Ah. Yes. By all means. Bail out the pigs on Wall St., but don't give a dime to the folks who got caught up in the fleecing.

Anyway, pretty sure DMenscha is correct: this is financed by the settlement with the banks. So you knee-jerk ers can stand down.
I believe the "pigs on Wall St" generally, if not completely, paid back the money.

This is a give away program, and unlike you I'm pretty sure that this isn't financed with the bank settlement.

Dismissive comments are always entertaining, but I find some research and critical evaluation to have a place in discussions too.

And November will be fun.
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Old 05-11-2012, 05:17 PM
 
7,151 posts, read 4,432,884 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToCA View Post
I believe the "pigs on Wall St" generally, if not completely, paid back the money.

This is a give away program, and unlike you I'm pretty sure that this isn't financed with the bank settlement.

Dismissive comments are always entertaining, but I find some research and critical evaluation to have a place in discussions too.

And November will be fun.
Partially correct ... the pigs on Wall Street include some of the major banking institutions that received bailout money ... and of which banks most have paid back substantial sums, though not all. And, in fact, in some cases, the government took interest in some institutions (such as AIG) and the government has managed to turn a profit on some of those shares resold. Good for the government.

But what is beneath the surface is significant ... And significantly not discussed here. Those individuals on Wall St., of whom there were very many, who ran the semi-legal scams (semi-legal because they were a new game not yet specifically outlawed) profited enormously at the expense of the general public, commonly referred to as Main Street. And they haven't given up a thing. Paid back dime zero.

Even as these pigs took their huge personal, ill-gotton gains home amidst the smoking ruins of the national economy, and left their own institutions failing, they engineered with the political powers (who had no choice but to play given the alternative of complete collapse) the bailouts that repositioned the institutions for survival and profitability -- which fresh profitability again relined the pockets of the pig thieves. This, in Wall Street terms, is a classic "Win -- Win" scenario: "We win, and then we win some more, all with the money nobody else has access to."

Pretty cool, huh

As for specifically the bailout on these homes, again, only partial story being railed about here. The fact is the banks are not doing any kind of restructuring, principal reduction or even just interest adjustment, that they don't get paid for by government backed programs. It has been this way from the start. They get fees for every loan they restructure. Now they get money for every principal reduction as well. Some of it is for Fannie and Freddie loans, and some is on other terms for non-Freddie / Fannie. Some comes from the recent settlement, some from other emergency funds.

I have been closely involved in several of these deals (non-Freddie / Fannie) for three and a half years now. The pigs win three times. To explain further I would have to write a book here. It is so convoluted you'd not likely believe it.

My "dismissive comments" are very deliberate and backed by specific experience. The score is: Pigs: 3 / Public: 0
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Old 05-11-2012, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
13,474 posts, read 16,344,748 times
Reputation: 5319
I think a lot of bad behavior took place on Wall St, along with Washington DC and individuals.

I don't favor the public bailout of homeowners. I know this probably puts me among the minority of posters, but I strongly object to these actions. If the banks want to work out an agreement with homeowners, I see that as between the two parties.

I have seen many instances of homeowners in my own area who get reductions of $100's or even $1000's of dollars for a 3 to 5 year period, and still have made big personal purchases. I've also seen folks who have lived in their homes for periods of over a year (in two instances over 2 years) without making any payments at all.

But I do not support these government hand outs to homeowners.
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Old 05-11-2012, 05:54 PM
 
7,151 posts, read 4,432,884 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewToCA View Post
I think a lot of bad behavior took place on Wall St, along with Washington DC and individuals.

I don't favor the public bailout of homeowners. I know this probably puts me among the minority of posters, but I strongly object to these actions. If the banks want to work out an agreement with homeowners, I see that as between the two parties.

I have seen many instances of homeowners in my own area who get reductions of $100's or even $1000's of dollars for a 3 to 5 year period, and still have made big personal purchases. I've also seen folks who have lived in their homes for periods of over a year (in two instances over 2 years) without making any payments at all.

But I do not support these government hand outs to homeowners.
Here's the thing: the banks aren't on the hook for any of the money in most cases. Very few banks actually carry paper of their own. They packaged and sold the mortgages in bundles (that pretty much can't be unraveled). Then they go on to service those loans for fees. They have pretty much no dog in the hunt. The only deal they "work out" is between the homebuyers and the representatives of the security bundles -- who are just fee-based brokers. Again, no dog in the hunt. But the loan servicing banks get fees for every transaction and restructure. They are making money at every turn of the scew.

So what if some folks don't make payments for a few years? They got screwed. If they restructure they will resume under a better payment schedule, but they will pay just like everyone else. The big hue and cry is really that some folks are getting relief.

Yeah? And?

Some folks, on the banking / mortgage side are getting filthy filthy filthy rich out of all this. And they are getting rich just playing with OPM: Other People's Money. So those who aren't getting relief and aren't getting filthy rich turn on the little guys who get over a little after getting their arses kicked previously? Consider vilifying the bad guys, not the hapless knuckleheads playing nickel slot machines and winning a wekend's hotel room.
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Old 05-11-2012, 06:00 PM
 
Location: San Jose
894 posts, read 1,357,189 times
Reputation: 723
I would love to see the government stop meddling in the housing market altogether, but I'm sure it will never happen in my lifetime. These bailouts are deplorable, but a drop in the bucket compared with other government interference, such as taxpayer guarantees of mortgages (via Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, FHA, etc.) and the mortgage interest tax deduction. All that these programs accomplish is to raise housing prices across the board, thus acting against their supposed intent of increasing homeownership. Thus taxpayers are doubly harmed: higher taxes to pay for the subsidies, and higher house prices.
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Old 05-11-2012, 09:14 PM
 
Location: In them thar hills
8,054 posts, read 10,063,240 times
Reputation: 4175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hwy phantom View Post
If you own an underwater home in California, thank the US taxpayers because they are now bailing you out to the tune of $100k per household.


In a big change, the state-run Keep Your Home California program will use federal money to reduce an eligible homeowners mortgage balance by up to $100,000 without requiring a matching reduction by the bank servicing the loan.


Underwater California homeowners to get more help
Circa 2008, there was some hope that the bad debt might get cleared out of the system, and the marginal home owners taken out of the market. This would have lowered prices to truly reasonable levels and reset our out of control real estate costs. But it was not to be. Shame on the Keynesians!
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Old 05-11-2012, 09:15 PM
 
Location: In them thar hills
8,054 posts, read 10,063,240 times
Reputation: 4175
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbunniii View Post
I would love to see the government stop meddling in the housing market altogether, but I'm sure it will never happen in my lifetime. These bailouts are deplorable, but a drop in the bucket compared with other government interference, such as taxpayer guarantees of mortgages (via Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, FHA, etc.) and the mortgage interest tax deduction. All that these programs accomplish is to raise housing prices across the board, thus acting against their supposed intent of increasing homeownership. Thus taxpayers are doubly harmed: higher taxes to pay for the subsidies, and higher house prices.
^ This.
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Old 05-12-2012, 10:17 PM
 
Location: Quimper Peninsula
1,799 posts, read 1,064,468 times
Reputation: 1442
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
Here's the thing: the banks aren't on the hook for any of the money in most cases. Very few banks actually carry paper of their own. They packaged and sold the mortgages in bundles (that pretty much can't be unraveled). Then they go on to service those loans for fees. They have pretty much no dog in the hunt. The only deal they "work out" is between the homebuyers and the representatives of the security bundles -- who are just fee-based brokers. Again, no dog in the hunt. But the loan servicing banks get fees for every transaction and restructure. They are making money at every turn of the scew.

So what if some folks don't make payments for a few years? They got screwed. If they restructure they will resume under a better payment schedule, but they will pay just like everyone else. The big hue and cry is really that some folks are getting relief.

Yeah? And?

Some folks, on the banking / mortgage side are getting filthy filthy filthy rich out of all this. And they are getting rich just playing with OPM: Other People's Money. So those who aren't getting relief and aren't getting filthy rich turn on the little guys who get over a little after getting their arses kicked previously? Consider vilifying the bad guys, not the hapless knuckleheads playing nickel slot machines and winning a wekend's hotel room.
Yep... I see you know what you are talking about... Really just another way to get money to the banksters....

Folks our banking system is corrupt and broken....... All of you screaming "socialist...bla bla bla" Please step back and look at what is really going on here.... You are nothing more than Cheerleaders for the "bad guys".. You are distracted by who is getting what scraps, when the big chunks of "meat" being handed out to the big boys on the inside of this whole just about ponzi scheme .

"You say you want a revolution
Well, you know"

People got to wake up to what is going on here!
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Old 05-12-2012, 11:46 PM
 
Location: Police State
1,472 posts, read 1,234,262 times
Reputation: 1225
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueTimbers View Post

People got to wake up to what is going on here!
I am awake to what is going on here. Yeah, damn those bankers for forcing people to sign on to homes that they couldn't afford in the first place. Oh wait....

Rip on Wall St. all you want, but nothing can change the fact that the people got into the housing market way over their heads are equally to blame. But I guess we're to believe rewarding irresponsibility is in the name of "justice" and "fairness."

"Sure, you can have a half a million dollar home!"

"Who me? I make $5 foot longs at Subway."

"Doesn't matter!"
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