Will you be voting for the tax measures this fall? (neighborhoods, purchase)

[dmode]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

This site may not be representative of the populace as a whole. Here, most can read, write and think for themselves - most, that is.

Ya never know what the sheeple will do, or not.

Have you ever added anything useful to any of the forums here? All I see from you is lame one liners. I mean, c'mon, you live in MO.

[Dunbar42]

Originally Posted by malamute

That's why Prop 13 makes it very fair.

Life isn't fair, that doesn't make prop 13 right. What prop 13 says is that a certain group (longer term home owners) are more special than others.

If I bought my house for $100,000 and counted on the taxes being what I can afford, then it's not fair if suddenly everyone around me decides to pay $300,000 for the same type of house and expects me to have to pay taxes on a $300,000 house.

But, that's how virtually every other state does it and it seems to work just fine. Property values don't "all of a sudden" go up. We had a housing bubble where that happened but those prices have crashed back to reality. You're also forgetting that if your house appreciates $200k you can sell it for a profit and move to a more affordable area. You're really asking to have it both ways too. You want the equity that comes with the price appreciation without having to pay your fair share of taxes.

You really hurt the retirees the most by robbing them of more and more money for property taxes.

And prop 13 hurts young families looking to purchase their first home. You're asking them to subsidize grandma which isn't fair either. It seems to me the fairest system is one where the assessed value determines what you pay in property taxes, not when you bought the house...

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by dmode

Have you ever added anything useful to any of the forums here? All I see from you is lame one liners. I mean, c'mon, you live in MO.

Yes. Get your eyes checked. And you live in Arizona. I'm a native Californian who lived there most of his life and spent his last 20 working years working in politics and legislation in Sacramento. I have a bit of insight into the taxes and other issues. And you?

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by Dunbar42

Life isn't fair, that doesn't make prop 13 right. What prop 13 says is that a certain group (longer term home owners) are more special than others.

The fairness of Prop 13 has already been adjudicated all the way to the US Supreme Court... it is a tax based on acquisition price with a yearly increase cap unless the 2/3 of the voters say otherwise... and for school infrastructure 55% voter approval is enough.

There is nothing fair about being subject to the assessor's opinion of value... prior to Prop 13, Assessors

It's like any other major purchase... tax is due on the price paid... I have an old Ford Mustang that has increased in value over the years... I know it is worth more than I paid... my annual tax to the State of California is based on my purchase price 25 years ago...

But, that's how virtually every other state does it and it seems to work just fine. Property values don't "all of a sudden" go up. We had a housing bubble where that happened but those prices have crashed back to reality. You're also forgetting that if your house appreciates $200k you can sell it for a profit and move to a more affordable area. You're really asking to have it both ways too. You want the equity that comes with the price appreciation without having to pay your fair share of taxes.

Excellent point... I owned a home in Washington State... it was assessed at what I paid for it... 18 months later the home's assessed value increased by 80%... some would say fantastic! For me, it meant my taxes went from$6000 to almost $11,000.... the kicker is when it was time to sell, I got about what I paid for it...

The reason the neighborhood assessments skyrocked is because a developer from California paid a huge price for some land with an old home... he had plans to subdivide and when he couldn't... he walked away during the bubble.

So one sale will skew the prices for everyone... even if it later turns out to be an anomaly...

I'm thankful every day that Prop 13 has done away with the Property Tax Roller Coaster

There is nothing fair about being subject to the assessor's opinion of value... prior to Prop 13, Assessors held all the cards and several went to prison for sweetheart deals to those of influence and power and one even committed suicide...

And prop 13 hurts young families looking to purchase their first home. You're asking them to subsidize grandma which isn't fair either.

Sorry... I have proof it isn't working this way... I live in Oakland CA and prices in my neighborhood are done at least 30% and some areas of the city as much as 60% from the peak.

Bought my home in 2005 and the Young Families now moving into the neighborhood are the ones getting lower taxes...

So... having owned for almost 8 years are the ones subsidizing those now moving in...

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

There is nothing fair about being subject to the assessor's opinion of value... prior to Prop 13, Assessors

Ya mean like this?

Ex-official arrested in L.A. County assessor corruption probe - latimes.com

[Dunbar42]

I never said anything about constitutionality which is what the supreme court cares about You seem to be suggesting that virtually every other state has it wrong, and somehow CA has it right with prop 13. You knew full well what your property taxes would be when you bought the house and yet you continue to complain...As far as the people you're subsidizing, that doesn't really have anything to do with prop 13 but the appeals process to get your assessed value reduced to the current market rate. You/they are still getting a crappy deal compared to the retired couple down the street who bought their house 20+ years ago.

[CA4Now]

Originally Posted by Dunbar42

Life isn't fair, that doesn't make prop 13 right. What prop 13 says is that a certain group (longer term home owners) are more special than others.

Special? They paid property taxes for most of their working lives so they get taxed out of their homes at retirement? Prop 13 was to protect older homeowners from losing their homes when they couldn't pay the whopping tax increases.

You're also forgetting that if your house appreciates $200k you can sell it for a profit and move to a more affordable area.

Older homeowners don't usually just "pick up and move" just because their home increases in value. (Neither do younger ones, BTW.) Have you ever gone through the process of moving from and to a new home?

You're really asking to have it both ways too. You want the equity that comes with the price appreciation without having to pay your fair share of taxes.

Do some research on Prop 13.

And prop 13 hurts young families looking to purchase their first home. You're asking them to subsidize grandma which isn't fair either.

What's your solution? Kicking grandma out so a more able-bodied, younger person with years of income ahead of him/her can move into the neighborhood?

It seems to me the fairest system is one where the assessed value determines what you pay in property taxes, not when you bought the house...

That was the whole reason Prop 13 went on the ballot to begin with. Assessed value had skyrocketed in the mid to late 1970s and people could not predict what they would be paying year to year.

[Ultrarunner]

Originally Posted by Dunbar42

I never said anything about constitutionality which is what the supreme court cares about You seem to be suggesting that virtually every other state has it wrong, and somehow CA has it right with prop 13. You knew full well what your property taxes would be when you bought the house and yet you continue to complain...As far as the people you're subsidizing, that doesn't really have anything to do with prop 13 but the appeals process to get your assessed value reduced to the current market rate. You/they are still getting a crappy deal compared to the retired couple down the street who bought their house 20+ years ago.

I was the new kid on the block... most of my neighbors... actually all, but one is retired and many built their homes...

I don't begrudge them a thing... they are the reason the neighborhood is a nice place to live... the lady across the street and over one is 102... she had the most beautiful garden she personally tended till last year.

I apologize for not doing a better job explaining my point.

The threads are full of people saying Prop 13 is hard on new families... my point is the new families in my city are the ones getting a break...

They are buying homes at all time record low interest rates and they have Prop 13 at a lower base year then those that have owned similar homes going back 10 years...

In other areas of the city... homes are selling for prices not seen since the 90s... that is just how hard hit they were...

I hope to be in my home forever and to one day be just like those seasoned citizens knowing taxes have limits...

Part of the problem is many people today want instant gratification...

They are unwilling to put in the time it takes to get there.

Almost 30 States have some version of the California Tax Payer's revolt as it was called... Washington State had I-747 till a judge threw it out and taxes.... like mine went up 80% overnight.

As stated... California has almost every tax and it still is not enough to feed the beast...

You are correct... my complaint is the Alameda County Assessor... there is no reason why a simple appeal requires 24 months to process... none what so ever... especially when I have to continue paying the full amount in hopes of a refund down the road...

[Captain Obvious]

Originally Posted by Ultrarunner

As stated... California has almost every tax and it still is not enough to feed the beast...

This.

No one has convinced me that if California had this revenue that the legislature would have spent within their means.

[majoun]

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious

This.

No one has convinced me that if California had this revenue that the legislature would have spent within their means.

The political culture of California without 13 would have been different. I don't know whether it would have been more fiscally responsible, but it would not have been the same.

Both supporters and opponents of 13 agree it made a massive change in the political culture, and even Ultrarunner admitted that 13 was designed to throw a spanner in the works...