Will you be voting for the tax measures this fall? (low income, condo)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I'm not a Californian, so I don't know what "mello-roos" means!
Technically, it's not a property tax. To the many homeowners that pay them, it is. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck.....
Here is a definition pulled from the Internet. Back to that whole quacks like a duck thing:
"Mello-Roos is a form of financing that can be used by cities, counties, and special districts (such as school disricts). Mello-Roos Community Facilities Districts (referred to as "CFDs") raise money through special taxes that must be approved by 2/3rds of the voters within the district. A CFD is formed to finance major improvements and services within the district which might include schools, roads, libraries, police and fire protection services, or ambulance services. The taxes are secured by a continuing lien and are levied annually against property within the district."
This is why I believe any discussion of prop 13 needs to include mello-roos. I believe there is something like 5 million people in CA who pay mello-roos. Some cities have a lot of communities with them. About 20% of the homes in Orange County pay them.
For a good amount of the homeowners in California, prop 13 has not kept their property related taxes/fees low. Nor has it kept the localities from raising additional revenue. They just create a fee that funds the same stuff property taxes fund, puts a lien on your house exactly like property taxes, but they wave a magic wand and sprinkle some fairy dust on it so that it's not called a tax
Technically, it's not a property tax. To the many homeowners that pay them, it is. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck.....
Here is a definition pulled from the Internet. Back to that whole quacks like a duck thing:
"Mello-Roos is a form of financing that can be used by cities, counties, and special districts (such as school disricts). Mello-Roos Community Facilities Districts (referred to as "CFDs") raise money through special taxes that must be approved by 2/3rds of the voters within the district. A CFD is formed to finance major improvements and services within the district which might include schools, roads, libraries, police and fire protection services, or ambulance services. The taxes are secured by a continuing lien and are levied annually against property within the district."
This is why I believe any discussion of prop 13 needs to include mello-roos. I believe there is something like 5 million people in CA who pay mello-roos. Some cities have a lot of communities with them. About 20% of the homes in Orange County pay them.
For a good amount of the homeowners in California, prop 13 has not kept their property related taxes/fees low. Nor has it kept the localities from raising additional revenue. They just create a fee that funds the same stuff property taxes fund, puts a lien on your house exactly like property taxes, but they wave a magic wand and sprinkle some fairy dust on it so that it's not called a tax
Absolutely right, I know that many of the newer developments in and around Sacramento have Mello Roos tax bills that effectively give them a tax rate of between 1.5 and 2% of their current property values.
Right, but at least you knew how much the property tax would be before you bought the house. You want high property taxes, my parents pay $16k a year in IL on a house worth ~$700k. And, even worse than you, the taxes have gone up $2k since the bubble burst despite the value of the house dropping $200k. You ought to be really angry at the guy down the street from you with a $400k house paying 1/3 as much you in property taxes because of prop 13. He's getting a free ride at your expense.
I think higher property taxes and lower income taxes would be more progressive than our current system. It would also create a steadier stream of taxes for CA. Right now, with high marginal tax rates, the state only brings in a lot of money when the economy is booming and the wealthiest residents are realizing big capital gains, large bonuses etc.
When the economy is not booming people find it hard to pay existing taxes let alone higher ones if Prop 13 went away. Taxes are NOT the problem spending is.
There are some controls on taxes and virtually none on spending or the State would not be in the mess it is. Imagine, one of the wealthiest States, in effect a small Country, and it is in shambles economically due to legislative mismanagement. The fix??? Raise taxes on the people
Well, maybe it would cause them to reconsider what type of person they next elect, that might help.
In the end it is the voters fault, they keep sending the same poor money managers back to office.
Absolutely right, I know that many of the newer developments in and around Sacramento have Mello Roos tax bills that effectively give them a tax rate of between 1.5 and 2% of their current property values.
I have no Mello Roos and live in a 56 year old home in Oakland and my tax rate is 1.6% of the assessed value which is 200k over what homes are selling for now...
So my actual rate is 2.25%
I have filed a formal appeal and the county has two years to act...
Right, but at least you knew how much the property tax would be before you bought the house. You want high property taxes, my parents pay $16k a year in IL on a house worth ~$700k. And, even worse than you, the taxes have gone up $2k since the bubble burst despite the value of the house dropping $200k. You ought to be really angry at the guy down the street from you with a $400k house paying 1/3 as much you in property taxes because of prop 13. He's getting a free ride at your expense.
I think higher property taxes and lower income taxes would be more progressive than our current system. It would also create a steadier stream of taxes for CA. Right now, with high marginal tax rates, the state only brings in a lot of money when the economy is booming and the wealthiest residents are realizing big capital gains, large bonuses etc.
I'm not angry at the people that paid less down the street...
I am angry the tax assessor in Alameda County started to to charge a filing fee to appeal and has 24 months to act... in the meantime, I have to pay the full amount and apply for a refund if my appeal is successful...
The county said they had to start charging an appeal filing fee because the number of appeals has dramatically increased... gee, I wonder why?
If it was up to me... I would follow the European Model where Property Tax is extremely low... because it is in the interest of the government for it's citizens to have a home... and other taxes based on income and consumption are high.
So you'd prefer Greece's fiscal mess to California's fiscal mess?
So you'd prefer Greece's fiscal mess to California's fiscal mess?
Great Question and more than happy to share my thoughts...
California isn't tied to the Euro and the crisis in Greece is extreme because Greece is tied to the Euro...
As far as Euro Countries go... I really like the way Austria and the Swiss do things...
Austria has very little property tax and what property tax there is goes for specifics... local fire protection, snow removal and local road maintenance.
I've had some spirited discussions with my colleagues in beer gardens in Salzburg... not one of them could fathom the property tax Californians pay... they said only a rich person can own anything more than a modest condo...
In Austria... property is often in the same family for hundreds of years... this is possible because the property tax is minimal as is the estate tax when it passes to the next generation.
Give me a higher income tax any day or even a higher sales tax because those won't come back to bite me later... they are tied to specific actions at the time the tax is incurred... unlike property tax that is the tax that never stops as long as you "Own"
Last edited by Ultrarunner; 05-20-2012 at 02:23 AM..
Give me a higher income tax any day or even a higher sales tax because those won't come back to bite me later... they are tied to specific actions at the time the tax is incurred... unlike property tax that is the tax that never stops as long as you "Own"
I actually don't mind a property tax as long as it goes for what it was originally intended to. For instance, here we're taxed on only 19% of the assessed value of our property. But 91% of that tax goes to support our local schools with the rest split between the state, the county, public health, the library, etc. It's somewhat reminiscent of California pre-Prop. 13.
In IL property taxes are assessed at the local level and vary quite a bit. I know somebody in a ritzy Chicago suburb with a million dollar house who pays $20k a year in property taxes. I have a friend in the distant suburbs with a $325k house that pay $5k a year. IL also raised the state income tax to a flat 5% unlike the graduated tax rates we have in CA. The issue with prop 13 is not the base tax rate. It's the fact that it locks in the tax increases at a rate below inflation for the duration of ownership. So you have two people on the same street paying wildly different tax rates despite their houses being equal in value.
The lack of affordability in Los Angeles is simple supply and demand and has nothing to do with prop 13.
That's why Prop 13 makes it very fair.
If I bought my house for $100,000 and counted on the taxes being what I can afford, then it's not fair if suddenly everyone around me decides to pay $300,000 for the same type of house and expects me to have to pay taxes on a $300,000 house.
You really hurt the retirees the most by robbing them of more and more money for property taxes.
If I bought my house for $100,000 and counted on the taxes being what I can afford, then it's not fair if suddenly everyone around me decides to pay $300,000 for the same type of house and expects me to have to pay taxes on a $300,000 house.
You really hurt the retirees the most by robbing them of more and more money for property taxes.
And the kicker is it doesn't have to everyone paying 300k... all it takes is one high comp and your sunk... at least it works like this in Alameda County.
Also... almost all the sales around here are classified as distress sales by the Assessor... i.e. Short Sales, Foreclosure and/or property that is Lender owned... the Assessor has a policy of not accepting distress sales... even if this is the market...
The last home marketed here had my considering selling mine and buying it only because I would be able to lock in a lower Property Tax Base because it sold for about a third less then what my smaller/older home is presently assessed.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $53,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
