Why do Southern Californians move to Vegas/Phoenix for affordability? Why not just the IE? (Anaheim: apartment complex, mortgages)
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Lived right at the foothills in San Bernardino back in the very late 70s, early 80s. One thing I remember is air quality so bad you couldn't see the mountains during the summer as the smog poured in from L.A. I hope at least that's changed.
That has actually changed a lot from the 1980s. The strict EPA standards in California have done quite a bit to reduce the number of ozone days. California's air quality is much better than in the past.
Kinda new in town but it looks to me like the IE is much closer to much higher and usable (ski, hiking, biking, motorcycling ) mountains than either LV or Phoenix, on top of being closer to the ocean. I have driven through and there are plenty of nice areas in the IE. I guess it's a LA think to belittle the IE.
Sure cost of living in California is higher but how much are you saving by *not* having to travel to other places (since really Socal has it all IMO), by having much cheaper flights to anywhere when you really need to go elsewehere etc....
With all the talk about people not being able to afford California, wanting to move out of state, get more for your money, etc.
When I talk to people there are people that are attracted to Vegas or Phoenix for example. But why? The economy is not stellar in those places, and the Inland Empire (which certainly has nice areas, in addition to not so nice areas) is n't that much more expensive. I know people disagree with California politics, and have every reason under the sun to leave, whatever,
but would the attraction of Vegas or Phoenix be? Moving to Phoenix from greater LA, is like someone from the Chicago area moving to Indianapolis.
I know some people love Vegas, but it really holds no appeal to me. That is a REAL fake/superficial city to the nth degree. LA has just as much soul and heritage as eastern cities do, just in a west coast way.
I know San Bernadino and Riverside counties don't have a lot going on, but there are nice areas that have there own job centers such as Rancho Cucamonga/Ontario airport area.
Anyways, not to knock Phoenix or Vegas, but if you have roots and connections to LA, but are looking for affordable housing in good areas, why not those areas of SB and Riverside counties?
I do like San Diego, but that is only because of the weather. Otherwise, Las Vegas blows away anywhere in California. No state income tax, much more freedom, no photo radar, 24 hour town, etc. I have always wanted to move to San Diego, but after learning about the draconian police state that California is, I have changed my mind.
After we do some work together I'll point you to areas of San Diego that aren't insanely overpriced within 1.5 miles of the ocean you would really like!
We'll do a road trip 'fact-finding' mission.
Of course I agree with LVD--I have lived in San Diego 2X's and loved it.
There are areas where the narcos are low key and the uniforms could not care less because they are either pulling people over for speeding or being called down to the Gaslamp (convention area/downtown by the water) for all the dui's and drunk and disorderlies.
Even though California is taxed out the roof; alcohol and wine are CHEAP. Supermarket food is also cheap. Some great little dive bars w/great music and a wonderful moderate climate (never too hot--never too cold).
I've lived in Hillcrest (6 blocks from Balboa Park & The San Diego Zoo) and 20ft from the Ocean just north of Pacific Beach (think of Vegas' Planet Hollywood). Best eye candy in So Cal without going to L.A.
We have every right to brag living in the IE and close to the beach. Can you be spontaneous and just decide to go to the beach living in Phoenix? Nope, you have to buy your plane tickets and plan it all out. I can drive to the beach whenever the hell I want.
I actually did do that when I was younger. I could leave my house at 7AM and be sitting on the beach at noon. I guess it comes down to whether you want to live in the IE and be 2 hrs. from the beach or Scottsdale and be 5-6 hrs. from the beach. Nobody can deny the IE is much closer than Phoenix or Vegas to the ocean but people act like Phoenix is in Nebraska or something. It's not like it's 1000 miles from the ocean. It is drivable. Plus if you're really in a hurry you can be in Puerto Penasco in less than 4 hrs.
I do like San Diego, but that is only because of the weather. Otherwise, Las Vegas blows away anywhere in California.No state income tax, much more freedom, no photo radar, 24 hour town, etc. I have always wanted to move to San Diego, but after learning about the draconian police state that California is, I have changed my mind.
I see your point, but if I wanted this, I would go to Texas before Vegas. No offense. Yes - Austin is a 24 hour town with no state income tax. More culture and character there.
That has actually changed a lot from the 1980s. The strict EPA standards in California have done quite a bit to reduce the number of ozone days. California's air quality is much better than in the past.
It is much better than the past, but it is still the worst in the country, right up there with Bakersfield. I have seen pictures of how bad it used to be, and yes it has definitely improved. But if you value your lungs, the IE is not a healthy place to live. Vegas has cleaner air, but that is all that the place offers more than LA.
LA/NwptBch has very few high-skill, high-income jobs aside from a few 100 financial jobs in CentCity and NB....much of why massive LA region is awfully poor by many per capita stats if one strips out BH and NB....it's a lovely playground for rich retirees along BH/NB coastal corridor...but a high-cost, overtaxed, inefficient region not unlike NYC or Northeast or Chic, just w/far better weather/topography
Any software/hardware engineers with skills naturally work/live in PaloAlto region where all the leading cos. are HQd (hell, SD's Qualcomm dwarfs any co. in entire LA region by mkt value)
Any Intel mfg workers are based at their various $10Bn fabs in AZ, NM, OR, TX, etc (ironically, most of Intel's leading-edge fabs are in US, not Asia, but not in CA)
But not many high-IQ engineers choose to work/live in TX (or Redmond/Medina, despite WA's lack of state inc tax)....they seem to congregate in PaloAlto corridor for reasons of upward career mobility and lifestyle, despite allegedly high COL and CA's abusive taxes (though many could argue SV COL is damn cheap vs QOL for anyone w/skills and a commensurate high income)
But suspect any high-skill, blue-collar o&g worker earning >$100K/yr would rather be in Hou or DFW or OKC than anywhere in CA (or Midwest/Northeast US RustBelt...or LazyBelt of FL/GA, etc)
And any lazy gvt worker seeking a >$100K/yr make-work, unionized job would migrate to NYC or DC or SF, certainly not TX
Any ~$100K/yr middle mgr w/kids but w/no career ambition prob has a much higher std of living/QOL in newer suburban Dallas (Southlake) than anywhere in CA/NV/AZ...or Eastern US
Suspect illegals who want to clean toilets or do landscaping will migrate to wherever there are lots of resorts/tourism....LV or FL or NYC or Anaheim or SF, etc
Self-selection and natural selection prevail amongst US geographies and industries....workers self-select locales much like cos. and industries....
LA/NwptBch has very few high-skill, high-income jobs aside from a few 100 financial jobs in CentCity and NB....much of why massive LA region is awfully poor by many per capita stats if one strips out BH and NB....it's a lovely playground for rich retirees along BH/NB coastal corridor...but a high-cost, overtaxed, inefficient region not unlike NYC or Northeast or Chic, just w/far better weather/topography
Any software/hardware engineers with skills naturally work/live in PaloAlto region where all the leading cos. are HQd (hell, SD's Qualcomm dwarfs any co. in entire LA region by mkt value)
Any Intel mfg workers are based at their various $10Bn fabs in AZ, NM, OR, TX, etc (ironically, most of Intel's leading-edge fabs are in US, not Asia, but not in CA)
But not many high-IQ engineers choose to work/live in TX (or Redmond/Medina, despite WA's lack of state inc tax)....they seem to congregate in PaloAlto corridor for reasons of upward career mobility and lifestyle, despite allegedly high COL and CA's abusive taxes (though many could argue SV COL is damn cheap vs QOL for anyone w/skills and a commensurate high income)
But suspect any high-skill, blue-collar o&g worker earning >$100K/yr would rather be in Hou or DFW or OKC than anywhere in CA (or Midwest/Northeast US RustBelt...or LazyBelt of FL/GA, etc)
And any lazy gvt worker seeking a >$100K/yr make-work, unionized job would migrate to NYC or DC or SF, certainly not TX
Any ~$100K/yr middle mgr w/kids but w/no career ambition prob has a much higher std of living/QOL in newer suburban Dallas (Southlake) than anywhere in CA/NV/AZ...or Eastern US
Suspect illegals who want to clean toilets or do landscaping will migrate to wherever there are lots of resorts/tourism....LV or FL or NYC or Anaheim or SF, etc
Self-selection and natural selection prevail amongst US geographies and industries....workers self-select locales much like cos. and industries....
Didn't know you were still around. With all your abbreviations and generalizations.
LA/NwptBch has very few high-skill, high-income jobs aside from a few 100 financial jobs in CentCity and NB....much of why massive LA region is awfully poor by many per capita stats if one strips out BH and NB....it's a lovely playground for rich retirees along BH/NB coastal corridor...but a high-cost, overtaxed, inefficient region not unlike NYC or Northeast or Chic, just w/far better weather/topography
Any software/hardware engineers with skills naturally work/live in PaloAlto region where all the leading cos. are HQd (hell, SD's Qualcomm dwarfs any co. in entire LA region by mkt value)
Any Intel mfg workers are based at their various $10Bn fabs in AZ, NM, OR, TX, etc (ironically, most of Intel's leading-edge fabs are in US, not Asia, but not in CA)
But not many high-IQ engineers choose to work/live in TX (or Redmond/Medina, despite WA's lack of state inc tax)....they seem to congregate in PaloAlto corridor for reasons of upward career mobility and lifestyle, despite allegedly high COL and CA's abusive taxes (though many could argue SV COL is damn cheap vs QOL for anyone w/skills and a commensurate high income)
But suspect any high-skill, blue-collar o&g worker earning >$100K/yr would rather be in Hou or DFW or OKC than anywhere in CA (or Midwest/Northeast US RustBelt...or LazyBelt of FL/GA, etc)
And any lazy gvt worker seeking a >$100K/yr make-work, unionized job would migrate to NYC or DC or SF, certainly not TX
Any ~$100K/yr middle mgr w/kids but w/no career ambition prob has a much higher std of living/QOL in newer suburban Dallas (Southlake) than anywhere in CA/NV/AZ...or Eastern US
Suspect illegals who want to clean toilets or do landscaping will migrate to wherever there are lots of resorts/tourism....LV or FL or NYC or Anaheim or SF, etc
Self-selection and natural selection prevail amongst US geographies and industries....workers self-select locales much like cos. and industries....
Smart creative people come from all over the world and can be found working all over the world. Reasons why you see groupings form of various things .. Herd mentality - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
There's a solid value that things have and then there is the mania of markets that can far outscale them. There is nothing intelligent about working your ass off till crazy hours and missing out on the important things in life all to barely get by living no better than others that work 4x less... But hey, i guess some people get their jollies off telling people at dinner parties that they see Zuckerberg when he takes his morning ****...
Hollywood's propaganda machine exists more than anything to sell everyone on the idea that life ends and begins in L.A and means nothing if you dont have the latest foolishness people there have.
Silicon valley's propaganda machine has been hard at work for a long time harping the same idea that innovation and intelligence only exist here.
That paradigm among many is being disrupted by the day... and, like many practical things, most intelligent people in the valley don't see that either... Sorta contradicts the lie they tell themselves everyday to justify the stress they live under to 'get by'. After-all, the human mind needs compelling reasons to justify the continued up stream swim.... Everyone wants to be here.. I am in the place where it all happens... This is soo worth it ..The rest of the U.S is flyover country... There is no intelligence outside of the Valley.. Engineers in Texas.. they are just the scraps.. Engineers in NC .. scraps .. They do more engaging work then me? Lies .. all lies.. *covers ears : I can't hear you.. Can't afford a home? Oh, i will rent my whole life.. totally fine .. pfft. It's better even. What's that? Wanna go out and enjoy life? Nah' sorry bro, i am working nights/weekends on my non-creative startup hoping to get a million dollars selling fart aps so i can buy a shack in palo alto.. Maybe I'll party/have fun when i am a middle aged and single.. live up my glory days then ..
Last edited by yeahthatguy; 05-23-2012 at 11:48 PM..
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No state income tax, much more freedom, no photo radar, 24 hour town, etc. I have always wanted to move to San Diego, but after learning about the draconian police state that California is, I have changed my mind.
