California's population growth to slow in coming decades (hotels, neighborhoods)

[OC Investor2]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

Can you name any places -- in the world -- in all of history -- with highly desirable environment and resources, that, once settled and developed to modernity in every respect, ever were abandoned, or even suffered grievous decline? Atlantis perhaps?

Mexico has never developed to any state near the modernity of California. Further, Mexico's environment does not really match California's mild coastal / Mediterranean climate which, for a highly productive culture and workforce is preferable to true tropics. Personally, I do enjoy the tropics, but then I am not into high productivity -- which activity I consider a distraction from actual immersion in real life.

Um, the smelt? You think the world's richest and most productive farmland will be abandoned because of smelt? You are misinformed as to even the issue there, as well as how it affects the region agriculturally.

By the way, besides having been born and partly raised in Detroit, I grew up an equal amount in Philadelphia, a hop, skip, and jump to Atlantic City -- which city was quite a hoot when I was very young, fell into serious decline, only to be revamped into the east coast Vegas. But no, Atlantic City doesn't begin to offer much that could be compared overall to California. Just a good beach. Period. No port. No natural resources. No other recreation of significance. Not even any good view hillsides. Just one good big beach within easy driving distance to Philly.

To answer your first question the obvious answer is Rome and they have a nice climate there to....

I was offering up Atlantic Ciy as an example of a coastal city gone to pot to refute your clim that carmel or Encinitas could never go down hill. And if you had been in AC in the late 70's early 80's as I was, you might consider that city as a place that suffered grievous decline and abandonment as well.

[nullgeo]

Originally Posted by OC Investor2

To answer your first question the obvious answer is Rome and they have a nice climate there to....

I was offering up Atlantic Ciy as an example of a coastal city gone to pot to refute your clim that carmel or Encinitas could never go down hill. And if you had been in AC in the late 70's early 80's as I was, you might consider that city as a place that suffered grievous decline and abandonment as well.

Rome? Rome has never been abandoned and remains a world class, vibrant city to this day ... Changes in government and economics have occurred but always with an ever evolving, sophisticated population remaining.

And Atlantic City has never been more than a one trick pony resort town at best ... there is absolutely no comparison to the economy, education, resources, or year round climate of California. Atlantic City was never a cultural, nor academic, nor industrial, nor agricultural, nor R&D -- center, etc.

There is no highly desirable place such as modern California, anywhere in the world, anytime in history, that has gone to seed once developed. There are many lush and beautiful places that are still primitive ... but none that have been developed to a high degree and then abandoned to ruin. Not one.

[malamute]

Originally Posted by OC Investor2

Mexico has all these things as well.

So why is Mexico doing so poorly that a large percent of its population flees north? Bad politics, public corruption & mismanagement, and lawlessness that add up to a poor business enviroment Same dysfunctions that are sprouting up in CA.

You seem to take for granted alot of the wealth & success in CA. Don't make that mistake.

Exactly. Most of Mexico has near perfect climate, wonderful natural resources, year round farming but look how many have fled Mexico to shiver in Chicago, Minnesota. And certainly the illegals aren't pooring into California for the nice weather that they already had back home.

Weather doesn't affect many people because they mostly just stay indoors in their controlled temperature homes.

For California it's raise taxes significantly and keep the welfare handouts flowing which is what's bringing in large numbers of people or slash the welfare handouts significantly.

[.highnlite]

And your farmers may not stay on that productive land if they can't water it - thanks Delta smelt!

The smelt raise their fishy heads again. Only a minute fraction of California growers use water from the state aqueduct. The smelt issue scarcely affects the state's Ag output.

Mexico has the world's 13th largest economy, California has the 8th largest economy in the world. Mexico's greatest problem has been its governance.

[Bulldogdad]

The world's ten creepiest abandoned cities | Gadling.com

[blauskies]

Originally Posted by Bulldogdad

The world's ten creepiest abandoned cities | Gadling.com

Centralia, PA, I have been there plenty of times and use to drive down that road in the picture that's now closed and full of large cracks. If you ever seen the movie Silent Hill, well that's what that's what inspired the town used in the movie. Smoke, steam and the aroma of rotten eggs from the sulfur and a lot of dead smoldering trees.

[Bulldogdad]

Originally Posted by blauskies

Centralia, PA, I have been there plenty of times and use to drive down that road in the picture that's now closed and full of large cracks. If you ever seen the movie Silent Hill, well that's what that's what inspired the town used in the movie. Smoke, steam and the aroma of rotten eggs from the sulfur and a lot of dead smoldering trees.

Sounds like a paradise.

[blauskies]

Originally Posted by Bulldogdad

Sounds like a paradise.

It's quite the tourist attraction believe it or not, thanks in part to the movie, the underground fire has been burning for 50 years, the State of PA claimed eminent domain on the land and are waiting for all the residents to leave, a few still remain and some claim the Anthracite Coal underneath the town is worth millions and that it was a conspiracy by the state to profit from it.

[OC Investor2]

Originally Posted by nullgeo

Rome? Rome has never been abandoned and remains a world class, vibrant city to this day ... Changes in government and economics have occurred but always with an ever evolving, sophisticated population remaining.

And Atlantic City has never been more than a one trick pony resort town at best ... there is absolutely no comparison to the economy, education, resources, or year round climate of California. Atlantic City was never a cultural, nor academic, nor industrial, nor agricultural, nor R&D -- center, etc.

There is no highly desirable place such as modern California, anywhere in the world, anytime in history, that has gone to seed once developed. There are many lush and beautiful places that are still primitive ... but none that have been developed to a high degree and then abandoned to ruin. Not one.

Rome's population was pushing one million people at its height In the second century and it was the undisputed center of the western world. By the start of the dark ages is was home to as few as 30,000 people and livestock grazed in what we call the forum today. It's population didn't eclipse it's second century high water mark again until the 1800's. It's quite possible that if the RCC had not picked Rome as it's home the city would be another Carthage today, known only to history.

What I don't understand is why you seem to think we have'nt failed until the state becomes a post apocalyptic wasteland.

[malamute]

Originally Posted by .highnlite

The smelt raise their fishy heads again. Only a minute fraction of California growers use water from the state aqueduct. The smelt issue scarcely affects the state's Ag output.

Mexico has the world's 13th largest economy, California has the 8th largest economy in the world. Mexico's greatest problem has been its governance.

Yet Mexico is a democracy, it's people vote for it's leaders. If you read the Mexican Constitution, you can see that it's not really all that bad.

And Mexico's middle class is growing. If someone in Mexico completes school at least through secondary (high school), attains some job skills, marries before starting a family and doesn't start a family at age 13 or 14, and limits family size to what they can afford, they will almost certainly become part of Mexico's growing middle class.

The problem with Mexico is it's other culture, the culture of machismo, dropping out of school, and very early sexual activity and pregnancy and the culture that believes that a man is a man if he has more girls impregnated and a girl or woman's only worth is in having babies whether they survive or not. And the culture of disregarding any law that doesn't suit them.

How does anyone govern such a people? California isn't doing any better than Mexico except that for now the sky is the limit when it comes to spending. If spending ever gets cut, then what?