California debt: What options are available? (Sacramento: houses, unemployment, bankrupt)
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Ummm the entire Japanese society is on the verge of being destroyed by a failed nuclear power plant that is spewing untold amounts of lethal radiation into the atmosphere and the ocean.
I doubt it ... it is a major disaster, and I am a vigous opponent of nuclear anything, but no, Japanese society isn't on the "verge" of anything except continuing ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalCroozer
When the tsunami came and went Japan was rebuilding their roads in a matter of days. Look how long it takes the US government to rebuild a bridge or federal highway. The Japanese and Japanese culture are like night and day compared to Americans and American culture. What happened in Japan is also completely different than what is happening to Europe and America. Collateralized debt obligations, naked short selling, mortgage backed securities, and other "creative financial tools" didn't exist on the level that they do now. The collapse that is coming is going to be massive, far reaching, and have deadly consequences for western society. It's not a matter of if but when. Yes the sky is falling.
Yes! The Japanese are marvelous and different than Americans! And yes, the Japanese financial meltdown had different causes.
And no, none of those things matter in the context of my points.
The causes don't matter, the results of human response to challenge matter ... just as they do with California's, and America's, challenges.
You cite the brilliant way that the Japanese rose to the nuclear disaster -- as they have for other disasters. Now, that race and culture has been enduring within a fairly closed evolution for thousands of years, without a lot of integration until the past couple centuries -- engendering a certain propensity for the kind of cooperation we witness there. I have spent time in Japan. Neato. But I wouldn't want to ever live there.
America, on the other hand, has only existed for a few hundred years as a developing homogenous culture composed of different races and cultures from all around the planet.
And yet what do we see in America's history? The American Revolution that pulled the country together out of oppression. The Civil War which split the country into two very fiercely committed factions that worked together under extreme conditions to fight for their beliefs and the future each desired. WWI, massive mobilization to confront threat. The rise out of the Great Depression. WWII, the greatest mobilization on earth, in which the relative fledgling newcomer to nations stood up and nearly single-handedly defeated the Japanese, Germans and Italians.
Huh, whaddayaknow. Then the rallying for civil rights, and against the war in Vietnam. And dare we mention the total cohesive response to 9/11 -- which was only squandered by the shameless incompetence and hubris of the sitting President.
America can and will rise to adversities just as other cultures like the Japanese -- each in our own unique personality of ways.
The sky is not falling ... it is, and always has been, all around us ... from outer space right down to the ground at our feet ... we live in it and breathe it every second we live.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy
Key word : Could ..
That was at their incredibly ridiculous IPO Price .. Employees aren't able to exercise their options until the lockout period ends... So, there are a whole bunch of cool people that are about to see that $$ amnt. significantly reduced. I know of one who I talk to daily who I advised, unlike his other employees, not to buy a home .. Boy is he lucky he didn't ... But still not so happy about seeing his riches be destroyed by the day ....
“With so many people looking and so few homes available, the market is squeezed and sellers can get whatever they want,” said Stephanie Seeger, 39. She and her husband bid $86,000 over the asking price to win a four-bedroom home with about 2,300 square feet (214 square meters) in Menlo Park’s Willows neighborhood. The $1.88 million purchase is scheduled to close today, she said.
Zillow sample :
Date Description Price Change $/sqft Source
05/30/2012 Listed for sale $699,000 2.0% $501 Coldwell Banker Residential Brokerage - San Jose-Willow Glen
11/24/2011 Listing removed $685,000 -- $491 Intero Real Estate Services
11/05/2011 Listed for sale $685,000 30.2% $491 Intero Real Estate Services
04/26/2001 Sold $526,000 111% $377 Public Record
04/14/1995 Sold $249,500 -- $178 Public Record
You become a millionaire .. and the opportunistic individuals in the housing market ... shift right underneath you .. Congratulations on your great success.
Seller : Home prices have just gone up by $200k ..
New millionaire : But but nothing in Calif. changed overnight .. it didn't suddenly get more amazing.. what gives?
Seller : Oh?? Well, your pockets just got more amazing so I thought I'd help myself to some of it ..
Hope they foresaw 30%-50% of their $$ vanishing.. Chances are they didn't... As to why the rich and famous end up bankrupt later on in their lives? You guessed it : Taxes (Property taxes are a killer)
$1.8 million generic home.. I'll take a $180k elsewhere for 10x less.
More money more problems
Also in line w/ those losing on this, none other than California : Facebook's stock price dives, and California could take hit - latimes.com
Why? Because ..."The top 1% of earners fill the coffers of states like California and New York during a boom—and leave them starved for revenue in a bust."
Welcome to the bust ..
You did get the sarcasm of my post. Just checking because as much I enjoy your posts I was just looking for a
I wanted you to reply just as I expected you to add .. Oh', b.t.w his kids and his kids kids have to pay for whatever bill he racked up + interest.. And no, your average self-centered nimrod in the U.S doesn't care about the future or those who come after them which is why my generation is stuck w/ the pile of sh*t we are.
Try not being concerned w/ the very thing that puts a roof over your head, food on the table, and your family cared for .. Yes, money doesn't mean anything, I should sit on my a$$ all day and wait for handouts. Handouts that will be financed by debt. Debt that will be paid by someone else long after i'm gone. Sorry, while tommy is out digging for earth worms in the dirt climbing hills. Someone has to make sure the bills are paid.
You enjoy life as a retired person w/o a care/concern about the future. I'll enjoy mine planning/working so my family (wife/kids) can live it freely.
More nonsense whining about your perceived burdens and indenturedness.
You don't know what the future generations will have to pay -- because the evolution of solutions hasn't unfolded yet.
Your generation isn't stuck with anything more challenging than previous generations. Each has its similarities and also unique angles to negotiate. We live today in unprecedented luxury and fluff and ease. Who paid for today? Generations of men and women who struggled to come to and settle and defend this land you take for granted in its ease.
Your African ancestors were kidnapped, raped and forced into slavery to build this nation. Tell them about what a pile of sh*t you have inherited. Tell it also to the millions of young soldiers who have given their lives to creating and protecting the nation. Tell it to the generations that lived on the prairies ... tell it to the immigrants that built the railroads ... tell it from the mountaintop you are blessed to be able to climb, you self-absorbed noodge.
As for me enjoying retirement without a care -- how do you think I got to this point in my life? You carry me through the death and destruction and financial battles I have waged while carrying my four kids plus foster kids on MY back, half the time without the help of their mother who passed as they grew up?
Your turn. Buckle up now. Don't forget to enjoy the ride -- or you'll look back and be bitter.
1) Cut all State employees pay/benefits by 50%
2) Abolish CTA
3) Abolish ARB
4) Cut State funded entitlements by 50%
5) Put a 5 year sunset clause on any State law or regulation not voted on and renewed by voters.
Not saying it will, but it is one of the possible scenarios that paying for the crash can be substantially covered by future growth.
Point being: no one knows.
We do have to proceed with making corrections as aggressively as allows for living ...
but submitting to a "sky is falling" mentality is self-defeating.
Glad I didn't serve my duty under fire overseas with a bunch of the folks I read on this forum.
I'd say that past history suggests the citizens of California will continue to elect stupid people to the state legislature, the governor's office, and to Congress.
Whoever promises to butter their bread....that is who they will vote for.
Yep, nothing is wrong w/ Japan. From this remark, I can tell very well how you view 'financial' health.
You're ignoring the issue, namely that people have been talking about the problems in Japan for 2 decades...and yet the nation is still doing well compared to others. Ironically, before that everyone thought Japan was going to take over the world.
But this is what happens when you follow a dogma, what *should* is going to happen even though...well...it isn't happening.
But, again, what exactly are you trying to get at with your analogy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeahthatguy
I am sure the people of Spain, Italy, and Greece thought the same.. For that matter : Germany and France who now have to bail em out.
The people in Spain, Italy, and Greece are becoming to understand the real problem, namely, they joined a "union" that was created for the benefit of Germany and friends.
Government debt does not operate in the same way as personal debt, hence analogous between the two are always going to lead to the wrong idea. Like I said.....you're not even getting the premises right.
And more examples of how ups happen as well as downs ... best day for stocks this year ... all because of proposals for solutions as opposed to pessimistic concessions to defeat: U.S. Stocks Surge On Talk Of Spanish Bank Rescue
Point: you Chicken-Littles don't know what future generations will have to pay ...
Ironically, you can know a lot more about what "future generations will have to pay" than you can about what caused a rally one day in the equities markets. US Stocks surge on talks of Spanish Bank Rescue...its a cute story....but nobody knows why the lords of Chaos made the market rally today. But the volatility is sure easy $$.
Anyhow, the big wild card is the rate of inflation. Higher inflation will transfer wealth from the current "owners" to younger generations. Debt has been a tool to transfer wealth for centuries, interestingly ancient rulers would have to absolve its citizens of debt here and there.
Ironically, you can know a lot more about what "future generations will have to pay" than you can about what caused a rally one day in the equities markets. US Stocks surge on talks of Spanish Bank Rescue...its a cute story....but nobody knows why the lords of Chaos made the market rally today. But the volatility is sure easy $$.
Anyhow, the big wild card is the rate of inflation. Higher inflation will transfer wealth from the current "owners" to younger generations. Debt has been a tool to transfer wealth for centuries, interestingly ancient rulers would have to absolve its citizens of debt here and there.
Really, you can't know too damn much about future generation indebtedness -- except that some is as certain as death and taxes ... but why stocks rally is a lot more psychological than rational. I assume you realize the sarcasm of my posting about Spain banking rumors spiking U.S. stocks.
Now here's a really really interesting thing to note: I am aware of past debt absolutions in history ... but I am intrigued that you bring it up and would like to read more if you care to pass on additional historical notes. Me actually being interested in anything you have to say is a rather remarkable event in history itself. But there you go -- speaking of volatility and unpredictable surprises.
I ask because obviously the uber-wealthy have more than enough money to set the economies of the world back in balance ... and they have personalities that thrive on financial / power manipulation and would be lost without such recreation. Thus if they thought their recreation was going to be denied, they would act with sufficient aplomb and aggression to grease the wheels again. Of course what they would do would always be the minimum to keep the games going -- and dress it up as something other than what it is so as not to give away the game.
I have had a nagging sense that some debt forgiveness may be seen in the coming decade, in some distorted forms.
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