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View Poll Results: Are you for or against the tax initiative
For tax initiative 10 27.78%
Against tax initiative 26 72.22%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-29-2012, 06:54 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
8,130 posts, read 5,204,479 times
Reputation: 5916

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonard64 View Post
The problem is that more money has not fixed the problem. The money is not the problem the teachers (read some teachers, the Union and the school administrators among other things) and the curriculum are the real areas that need to be addressed. If more money fixed it, CA would have had the best schools in the world with the best students graduating in mass of any country in the world. But ..... tain't the case. More money is the excuse not the need.

Here is the 1895 Salina, KS test. How many today in 12th grade could pass it (Ignoring KS specific questions).

8th GRADE FINAL EXAM

Grammar (Time, one hour)
1. Give nine rules for the use of Capital Letters.
2. Name the Parts of Speech and define those that have no Modifications.
3. Define Verse, Stanza and Paragraph.
4. What are the Principal Parts of a verb. Give Principal Parts of. lie, lay and run
5. Define Case, Illustrate each Case.
6. What is Punctuation? Give rules for principal marks of Punctuation.
7. Write a composition of about 150 words and show therein that you understand the practical use of the rules of grammar.

Arithmetic (Time, 1.25 hours)
1. Name and define the Fundamental Rules of Arithmetic.
2. A wagon box is 2 ft deep, 10 feet long and 3 ft. wide. How many bushels of wheat will it hold?
3. If a load of wheat weighs 3942 lbs., what is it worth at 50cts/bushel, deducting 1050lbs. for tare?
4. District No. 33 has a valuation of $35,000. What is the necessary levy to carry on a school seven months at $50 per month, and have $104 for incidentals?
5. Find cost of 6720 lbs. coal at $6.00 per ton.
6. Find the interest of $512.60 for 8 months and 18 days at 7 percent.
7. What is the cost of 40 boards 12 inches wide and 16 ft. long at $20 per meter?
8 Find bank discount on $300 for! 90 days (no grace) at 10 percent.
9. What is the cost of a square farm at $15 per acre, the distance around which is 640 rods?
10. Write a Bank Check, a Promissory Note, and a Receipt.

U. S. History (Time, 45 minutes)
1. Give the epochs into which U. S. History is divided.
2. Give an account of the discovery of America by Columbus.
3. Relate the causes and results of the Revolutionary War.
4. Show the territorial growth of the United States.
5. Tell what you can of the history of Kansas.
6. Describe three of the most prominent battles of the Rebellion.
7. Who were the following: Morse, Whitney, Fulton, Bell, Lincoln, Penn, and Howe?
8. Name events connected with the following dates: 1607, 1620, 1800, 1849, 1865.

Orthography (Time, one hour)
1. What is meant by the following: Alphabet, phonetic, orthography, etymology, syllabication?
2. What are elementary sounds? How classified?
3. What are the following, and give examples of each: Trigraph, sub vocals, diphthong, cognate letters, linguals?
4. Give four substitutes for caret 'u! '.
5. Give two rules for spelling words with final 'e.' Name two exceptions under each rule.
6. Give two uses of silent letters in spelling. Illustrate each.
7. Define the following prefixes and use in connection with a word: bi, dis, mis, pre, semi, post, non, inter, mono, sup
8. Mark diacritically and divide into syllables the following, and name the sign that indicates the sound: card, ball, mercy, sir, odd, cell, rise, blood, fare, last.
9. Use the following correctly in sentences: cite, site, sight, fane,
fain, feign, vane, vain, vein, raze, raise, rays.
10. Write 10 words frequently mispronounced and indicate pronunciation by use of diacritical marks and by syllabication.

Geography (Time, one hour)
1. What is climate? Upon what does climate depend?
2. How do you account for the extremes of climate in Kansas?
3. Of what use are rivers? Of what use is the ocean?
4. Describe the mountains of North America.
5. Name and describe the following: Monrovia, Odessa, Denver, Manitoba, Hecla, Yukon, St. Helena, Juan Fernandez, Aspinwall & Orinoco.
6. Name and locate the principal trade centers of the U.S.
7. Name all the republics of Europeand give the capital of each.
8. Why is the Atlantic Coastcolder than the Pacific in the same latitude?
9. Describe the process by which the water of the ocean returns to the sources of rivers.
10. Describe the movements of the earth. Give the inclination of the earth.

Mind you today they do study subjects like; Heather Has Two Mommies.

Yes we have slipped badly.
Show ("Don't Randomly Capitalize Letters.");
n=1;
while (true) {
show(n "Don't Randomly Capitalize Letters.")
if (n==8) {break;}
n=n+1;
}

What is punctuation? How one punctuation correctly. As in Number 7, where one would use a period between two independent clauses. "Write a composition of about 150 words and show therein that you understand the practical use of the rules of grammar." is an example of incorrect grammar. Also see Number 4 in Arithmetic section. You don't get extra bonus points, for putting in, random commas -- that's what the "," punctuation mark is called in case, you was a' wonderin',.,
Why am I expected to write 150 words demonstrating proper grammar when you can't even write a sentence?
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Old 06-29-2012, 08:21 PM
 
731 posts, read 1,145,209 times
Reputation: 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by nullgeo View Post
What would be vastly more interesting -- and useful to individuals and society both -- would be curriculum demonstrating how one's personal sense of worth and value to one's self and society is enhanced by quality behaviors, good citizenship, responsibility, ... that sort of silly stuff.
You are kidding right?

The generation in Jr high school in the 1890's went on to fight WWI and WWII (Called the greatest generation for a reason) and developed the industry that exists today and raised pretty good kids who went on to fight against racism (even if the Libs in the South didn't want it) .They learned BOTH.

I was in Jr High over 50 years ago in CA and we learned respect for everyone, the authorities and to resist racism, which I never saw growing up in OC. We learned to give of ourselves and help others, respect our parents and look out for our neighbors. We also learned how to read and write and add. Today's kids are so poorly taught that they probably could not read the Test. OH, but they are taught to be socially responsible. I beg your pardon, but wasting education money and not being able to get a decent job because kids from other countries out score the kids here, is not socially responsible. The level of education is near bottom for most here. The things you are talking about, at a real not an ideological level, have been taught for decades along with the 3 R's that most kids struggle with today.
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Old 06-29-2012, 09:20 PM
 
7,151 posts, read 4,311,831 times
Reputation: 3806
Quote:
Originally Posted by leonard View Post
You are kidding right?

The generation in Jr high school in the 1890's went on to fight WWI and WWII (Called the greatest generation for a reason) and developed the industry that exists today and raised pretty good kids who went on to fight against racism (even if the Libs in the South didn't want it) .They learned BOTH.

I was in Jr High over 50 years ago in CA and we learned respect for everyone, the authorities and to resist racism, which I never saw growing up in OC. We learned to give of ourselves and help others, respect our parents and look out for our neighbors. We also learned how to read and write and add. Today's kids are so poorly taught that they probably could not read the Test. OH, but they are taught to be socially responsible. I beg your pardon, but wasting education money and not being able to get a decent job because kids from other countries out score the kids here, is not socially responsible. The level of education is near bottom for most here. The things you are talking about, at a real not an ideological level, have been taught for decades along with the 3 R's that most kids struggle with today.
No, Leonard, not kidding. I am serious as a heart attack.
Except I know that character and responsibility can't be taught in impersonal classes.

You are a bit of a hoot. You appear to buy into an awful lot of hooey.
Generations that fought in wars mean what? I fought in a war. Big deal.
Any war that threatens will find plenty of courageous youngsters to fight ... In fact, plenty of stupid, as well. Even for wars based on nothing but bullsh*t.

Generations before many went to school at all did neat, amazing things too ... sailing off the edge of the flat earth to find it wasn't flat ... the American Revolution ... abolishing slavery ...

Learning to give of ourselves isn't learned in school -- wish it was. It is a truly natural function for social primates to act that way toward others in their troop ... in today's ever expanding world, it becomes a real trick to identify one's troop, however -- thus the problems we live with.

My comment was to a considerable degree tongue-in-cheek because of what I wrote above ... but my point was that formal education is a load of crap for the most part compared to what's truly important in life: personal and social responsibility, creativity, humility, good health disciplines, and the ability to respect nature and its laws.

As for "our" children losing to "their" children (of foreign lands), that's pretty inconsistent with your praising the generations that fought for freedom and against racism and the like, wouldn't you say? I mean you are not exactly promoting fairness and sharing, are you? Not when you want all the good education and jobs for "our" children. It's a global community now, Leonard. Be nice. Share and share alike.

Look, most of what kids are made to slave over in schools now is crap. And much of what they used to slave over was also crap. Education doesn't make a good person -- unless your definitions are materialistic in goals. Mine aren't. And education doesn't make a person smart either. As I have written before, I know plenty of uneducated people who can see through a sack of sh*t with x-ray vision, and know just what to do with it. Can't say that for a lot of edumacated folks. And I know people without educations making plenty big money too. Know a roofing contractor with an 8th grade education who owns properties in California that you and I couldn't afford together -- and I ain't poor anymore. Met him sport fishing in Alaska. He flew up in his own plane. Keeps a hella expensive boat up there to play on a few weeks a year. Made all his money getting filthy on roofs in hot sun of southern California.

I have advanced degrees. None of my four kids have any college. I didn't encourage it (didn't discourage it either). They are plenty smart. My three boys build and fix things with stone and dirt and wood and get dirty. They hunt and fish and grow gardens -- and care for their families. What they do not do is cheat, lie, or steal -- or bullsh*t their way through life with phoney resume's. I am one happy dad.
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Old 06-29-2012, 11:42 PM
 
Location: South Central Los Angeles
4,227 posts, read 1,359,422 times
Reputation: 1056
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeCalifornia View Post
I just wanted you to admit that the dems have been in control forever. Not sure how you can blame everything on a RINO governor given that.
It's not all his fault... It just went to hell under his leadership...
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Old 06-30-2012, 01:48 AM
 
Location: SoCal
74 posts, read 105,654 times
Reputation: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHABAZZ310 View Post
I wouldn't be against getting rid of the dependent exemption... That's actually a good idea if the money saved is used wisely (no bullet trains built with the savings)... Do you happen to know how much California pays out with this exemption yearly?
Page seven of the PDF (the last line item) shows the "dependent exemption in excess of the personal exemption credit" costs the state 600M.

I was unable to link the PDF but I will link to the Tax Expenditure Report.

Financial Research - California Department of Finance

The dependent exemption credit was $99.00 but recently jumped to $315.00.
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Old 06-30-2012, 06:19 AM
 
Location: Hills & Hollers of the Aux Arcs
19,010 posts, read 16,238,127 times
Reputation: 16957
Does anyone else remember Bill Honig as Superintendent of Schools? I used to cringe every time he opened his mouth. He always said the same thing, "Give us more money!" The people and the Legislature did so and the schools didn't get any better so he asked for and received more. Then he was caught with his hand in the cookie jar, was tried and convicted and ousted from public service. Last year, the Retread Governor, Jerry Brown, recycled Honig and appointed him to the Board of Education. That really makes good sense. But the issue remains, are the schools any better?

I think today's seniors consider capital letters to be only good for things like LOL, YMMV, IMHO, etc.; their only other applications to be yelling/screaming on the net or randomly mixed with lower case letters to write like serial killers.
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Old 06-30-2012, 06:29 AM
 
Location: Where they serve real ale.
7,250 posts, read 3,001,614 times
Reputation: 3497
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonard64 View Post
The problem is that more money has not fixed the problem. The money is not the problem the teachers (read some teachers, the Union and the school administrators among other things) and the curriculum are the real areas that need to be addressed. If more money fixed it, CA would have had the best schools in the world with the best students graduating in mass of any country in the world. But ..... tain't the case. More money is the excuse not the need.
I'm afraid that factually that simply is not true. California is currently raked 48th out of 50 when it comes to per student spending per year. Yeah, we spent slightly more than Mississippi and Alabama per student but less than every other state in the union and certainly less than every other 1st world country. Also by law 90% of that has to be spent on local schools where students and parents see the impact (not on over head or higher level management staff) so largely the money is getting to where it is needed most. The problem is we're just not spending very much per student per year and that won't change without an increase in funding.

Some people like to say more money doesn't guarantee success which is true but it's also true that not spending enough money to get the job done insures failure. Right now we're was closer to the later than to the former.
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Old 06-30-2012, 11:43 AM
 
11,727 posts, read 24,462,369 times
Reputation: 7124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Think4Yourself View Post
Also by law 90% of that has to be spent on local schools where students and parents see the impact (not on over head or higher level management staff) so largely the money is getting to where it is needed most.
You mean like bigger pensions for teachers? If there's anything than makes schools better, its bigger pensions.
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Old 06-30-2012, 04:39 PM
 
Location: Sacramento
8,130 posts, read 5,204,479 times
Reputation: 5916
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeCalifornia View Post
You mean like bigger pensions for teachers? If there's anything than makes schools better, its bigger pensions.
Yes, better pay would help. The drop in IQ and SAT score of the teaching profession has been well documented. It's one of those unintended consequences of women having more opportunities... used to be there weren't a whole lot of careers open to women, so the best and brightest went into teaching. That's not the case any longer. Women who might have been teachers fifty year ago are going into business, medicine, engineering, etc. Fields that command both more respect and better pay. Smarter doesn't necessarily mean better, but in general smarter people do better... but it helps when those going into education aren't among the stupidest people pursuing college degrees as is now the case. It's certainly not the only thing wrong, but attracting and retaining good teachers would help.
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Old 06-30-2012, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Orange county, CA
386 posts, read 237,228 times
Reputation: 715
Quote:
Originally Posted by Think4Yourself View Post
I'm afraid that factually that simply is not true. California is currently raked 48th out of 50 when it comes to per student spending per year. Yeah, we spent slightly more than Mississippi and Alabama per student but less than every other state in the union and certainly less than every other 1st world country. Also by law 90% of that has to be spent on local schools where students and parents see the impact (not on over head or higher level management staff) so largely the money is getting to where it is needed most. The problem is we're just not spending very much per student per year and that won't change without an increase in funding.

Some people like to say more money doesn't guarantee success which is true but it's also true that not spending enough money to get the job done insures failure. Right now we're was closer to the later than to the former.
Funny, I thought Utah/Nevada/Texas/Louisiana/Florida etc etc had the lowest per pupil spending. Funny how one reads the papers in a respective area, and the educators are whining about how that state spends the least on the children. I'm 29 but I have a very long memory. In Utah and Nevada and New Mexico, every year without fail, the educators in those states would put out their hands and make like Reverend Lovejoy's wife on the Simpsons and play the "oh won't someone PLEASE think of the children!" card. Nevada and New Mexico don't tend to fall for it, but Utah does. So every year when I was in my teens and in my twenties, some stupid educator would whine that classic whine, "won't someone PLEASE think of the children!" and the gullible Utah voters would happily pass that tax increase. And the next year, there was still not enough money, so the educators came out and screamed "won't someone PLEASE think of the children?!" And there was never, ever any improvement to the schools with those tax increases, ever, not once. Some years the teachers never got raises even. Oh, wait, I take that back, my high school alma mater now has more administrators (I think there are now two extra) that make six digits a year in Utah, and the educators built themselves a nice little fortress mockingly referred to as the Taj Mahal by the locals - a fancy building that has air conditioning (the Davis County School district doesn't provide that luxury to the schools) and where not a single child is taught.

Like I said I have a very long memory. Year after year I got used, beat up textbooks for school and went to a school with no AC and with banged up lockers in an affluent suburb of Salt Lake City, and year after year my parents paid more and more in taxes on everything, because no one wants to see the children suffer. But we did anyways. The taxes would be passed but there was never enough money, so even with increases, programs got cut and textbooks were duct taped together.

I will be voting NO. The children can beg and cry and whine and do without their football teams and the schools can shut down for all I care. Because I know that even if I voted yes, not a single dime will go to a single child in California, it will go to unions and bloat and maybe if I am lucky a one penny raise for a teacher. California needs to cut the fat from its budget. Period. Until it starts to do so, I will be voting no on every tax increase that comes my way.

For 12 out of 14 of the years I lived in Utah, the people happily voted to tax themselves more for the children. And it did not solve anything. Throwing money at schools will not solve the problems.
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