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Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SunnyTXsmile
Wow, someone wound you up. lol I love this post, #1 because it's hilarious. #2 because it's so true.
Sad thing is, I've lived in many States, and the same argument happens there, too. Yay for me. I get to hear this over, and over, and over, and over. (I know you're jealous. )
Oh yeah, they're so tiresome, and they even feel entitled to tell folks how to talk, fer crissakes (...LOL)l But let me guess, y'all have a lot of the same problem with the usual bunch of, "well, I grew up here, and if it weren't for these dam furiners...!"
Actually, Newsweek did an article awhile ago that makes a pretty good case that most of Cali's "issues" are really the result of these narcissistic "natives" (conservative and progressive alike), who've now become so smug, complacent and self-centered ("its all about ME!"), especially compared to their pioneer ancestors who first made the state great. So now we're all paying for it via the stagnation and short-sighted entitlement of "hysterical greens, public-employee lackeys and Neanderthal Republicans who have turned the state into a fiscal laughingstock."
That sounds like a very unfortunate situation on many levels. I'm truly sorry to hear that. I know it happens more often than we realize.
However, does it not prove the point that illegals are willing to work for less? I'm sure legals would have been hired were they willing to work for less, too, no?
Perhaps, but why should they? There are wage and working condition laws in this country in case you weren't aware of it. Are you saying that it's fine for a company to hire illegals if they can skirt the laws, pay less than minimum wage and reap more profit as a result?
The wage is the same for both. The real issue seems to be that some people won't work for a certain wage, while others will. Guess who is getting the job?
So the next question becomes: Why are some people not accepting a certain wage/position? Very likely A. lifestyle, B. bills they've boxed themselves into due to A., or C. pride/entitlement.
But that's perhaps another thread altogether.
I'm not sure I buy that. Is it unreasonable to conclude that an illegal immigrant is willing to work for less pay and benefits than a legal citizen? If so, the "same wage" argument really isn't valid. That "same wage" is artificially depressed by the willingness of illegal workers to accept less pay. Even if an illegal immigrant has false papers and a stolen identity, and the employer has no clue they are illegal (or doesn't care), the mere fact that they are willing to work for less pay will impact the wages being set.
Let's say I have a construction company. If people were coming up to me looking for work and willing to work for $3 less and hour than I typically pay, and they had papers, I'm probably going to hire them if all other things are equal. Before long that becomes the set wage. So now you have an environment where legal citizens aren't really wanting to do my work for that pay. Or maybe I use a labor contractor instead who has a magical supply of people willing to work for a couple dollars less an hour than I normally have to pay. You don't see how wages can be depressed due to illegal labor in the workforce?
Perhaps, but why should they? There are wage and working condition laws in this country in case you weren't aware of it. Are you saying that it's fine for a company to hire illegals if they can skirt the laws, pay less than minimum wage and reap more profit as a result?
And such companies are being busted left and right nowadays. Whether you love or hate Obama, his administration has been hammering firms knowingly and willingly employing illegal labor. That tells me those types of companies are in no short supply. Plenty of them using illegal labor to gain an unfair advantage (costs).
[quote=mateo45;25140549]"So now were paying for it via the stagnation and short-sighted entitlement... of hysterical greens, public-employee lackeys and Neanderthal Republicans who have turned the state into a fiscal laughingstock."/QUOTE]
Ya missed a few words, i.e. "divided between buffoonish current governor and a legislature..." That would kinda point to the Democrat side of the aisle, would it not?
I have no love for either but a bit of balance when quoting would be most helpful. Neither side of the aisle is blameless and unless I'm horribly mistaken it's the port side that has predominated in Sacramento for decades.
If you're going to taker shots it's best to aim for the center of the target. Otherwise your credibility diminishes.
The wage is the same for both. The real issue seems to be that some people won't work for a certain wage, while others will. Guess who is getting the job?
So the next question becomes: Why are some people not accepting a certain wage/position? Very likely A. lifestyle, B. bills they've boxed themselves into due to A., or C. pride/entitlement.
But that's perhaps another thread altogether.
This is an excellent post. The reality is most illegals end up in very low skilled jobs usually some form of manual labor. Yes, the increased competition does lower wages to some extent (though probably not by much in most field) but it does mean low skilled American citizens do have to hustle harder and work more efficiently (be better at their job and do more each hour) and a lot of them don't like that. They feel entitled to be lazy and have low productivity while still making a good wage. Sorry but life doesn't work that way.
The obvious solution is for low skilled American citizens to go back to school and actually qualify themselves for jobs which the market has determined is worth higher wages. That would take personal effort though and they'd much rather site here whining then actually doing anything constructive to better their own positions. That's why they're in dead end low skill jobs to begin with.
I have a trucking company as a tenant. His guys earn at least 1400 a week. Anyone can apply, but the ratio is 9-1 Latino/White. The only requirements: commercial license and basic English.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I could live on that wage and I don't see anyone being forced out by "illegals."
1. Well perhaps they are legal citizens. Not all Latinos are here illegally. I think a trucking company would have to have big stones to hire illegals. A lot of checks and encounters with law enforcement in that business.
2. Never been to a truck stop in CA and seen that ratio. Must be a heavily Latino area. A lot of people would jump at an opportunity to make $1,400 a week. Can't imagine many people without a degree avoiding that work at that salary.
3. On the flip side, I guess if he were actually paying illegals $800 a week he would tell his landlord? Everyone has a duty to tell their landlord when they are doing something illegal on their property. Landlords are so understanding of that
This is an excellent post. The reality is most illegals end up in very low skilled jobs usually some form of manual labor. Yes, the increased competition does lower wages to some extent (though probably not by much in most field) but it does mean low skilled American citizens do have to hustle harder and work more efficiently (be better at their job and do more each hour) and a lot of them don't like that. They feel entitled to be lazy and have low productivity while still making a good wage. Sorry but life doesn't work that way.
The obvious solution is for low skilled American citizens to go back to school and actually qualify themselves for jobs which the market has determined is worth higher wages. That would take personal effort though and they'd much rather site here whining then actually doing anything constructive to better their own positions. That's why they're in dead end low skill jobs to begin with.
I get the gist of what you are saying, but no legal citizen should have to do anything harder to take a job from an illegal worker. What if there were a group of illegal workers who for whatever reason were 30% more productive than your average American. Does that mean we cast Americans aside to allow companies to maximize their productivity?
That said, I'm all for your school idea. I spend a lot of time in Europe. I'm here now. I like the apprenticeship programs most of the countries offer over here. However, even with a free and abundant system of higher education or trade training, you still see people working the cashiers...
Last edited by CarawayDJ; 07-12-2012 at 03:54 PM..
-They tax you on everything
-EVERYTHING is overpriced.
-Its overcrowded
-The people here are ignorant and rude, not all, but most of them
-Its SUNNY all the time. I like sunny days, but It does get quite annoying when it doesn't rain at all. And when it rains everyone goes crazy like "holy ****, its rain, where gonna die!"
-Illegal Immigrants everywhere.
This is an excellent post. The reality is most illegals end up in very low skilled jobs usually some form of manual labor. Yes, the increased competition does lower wages to some extent (though probably not by much in most field) but it does mean low skilled American citizens do have to hustle harder and work more efficiently (be better at their job and do more each hour) and a lot of them don't like that. They feel entitled to be lazy and have low productivity while still making a good wage. Sorry but life doesn't work that way.
in comes the smart #&@ response...
Yes, work more for less so the clowns at the top can make more and diminish the QOL of life of those at the bottom.
Employer makes $10 million a year under American workers ... goes out and has a blast living it up...
Can make $15 million by employing American workers who work at the 'levels' of illegal workers...
Societal result :100 'workers' get to have their quality of life reduced and depend more on the govt. so one clown can **** the bottles of champagne he consumes in celebration off his yacht.
Please enlighten us more as to the lazy ways of Americans and how someone should exploit the workers more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Think4Yourself
The obvious solution is for low skilled American citizens to go back to school and actually qualify themselves for jobs which the market has determined is worth higher wages. That would take personal effort though and they'd much rather site here whining then actually doing anything constructive to better their own positions. That's why they're in dead end low skill jobs to begin with.
And when those jobs are outsourced to other countries by the same arse pissing off the side of their boat so they can profit more, what then?
When, even in America you can't find work because the govt. allows companies exploit H1B-visas .. what then? http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_1...over-u.s-jobs/
The obvious 'problem' is that everyday Americans are being duped by corporations and the govt. that is supposed to protect them from them... But, many of them who have jobs, don't see it that way ('confirmation bias' : i got a job why can't you... The illegal is working for peanuts and living 10 deep, why can't you (meanwhile I live a nice middle class life)),.....
So, they would much rather call other Americans trash instead of addressing the real problem (the corporations who exploit labor, the private individuals who exploit people, and govt. who through bought interest allows it all and makes policies to make it easier) ... Why? Why do people call Americans trash instead of the process that makes them that way? because it's not so obvious and takes personal effort to understand a problem/perspective outside of the narrow one you live...
It's no problem though, you'll be paying for your views down the road:
“contributes to an aggregate cost to taxpayers of $1.56 trillion and a cost to society of $4.75 trillion.”
You can't even kick illegals out of the country so don't think for a second you'll be able to rid yourself of the problem you don't want to truly address. Yes, call them names and ignore the real issues ... and enjoy paying for it.
Last edited by yeahthatguy; 07-12-2012 at 04:00 PM..
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